1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    36,646
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    As in stitches said, the choice of the universe of brands for this study is dubious at best. It is supposed to focus on "Haute Horlogerie" but the list of brands seems cherry-picked - several are nowhere near "haute" (e.g. Zenith, GP) and numerous brands in the same bracket are not included (e.g. GO, Rolex...)

    EDIT: so it's a bit clearer now: this specific media kit was meant to be part of SIHH coverage and includes only SIHH brands, so not a bias from the market research firm but a subset of the study for the purpose of SIHH marketing

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  2. Dino944

    Dino944 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,660
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    As for Il Destriero Scafusia, that is an watch that cost several hundred thousand dollars, and IWC so throughly revised the 7750 that was used that it is nothing like what one would find even in a 10,000-20,000 IWC Hell it was hardly a 7750 by that time. An IWC Double Chonograph has no where near the finishing or amount of modifications that make Il Destriero Scafusia a rather special watch. In terms of quality, workmanship, and modifications and improvements to a base movement IWC's Double Chrono is more closely related to any 3,000-10,000 watch from a different company powered by a 7750, than it is to II Destriero Scafusia.

    The Valjoux 7750 is a good sturdy workhorse. There is nothing wrong with it, at least when found in a watch within a certain price range. Personally, for that kind of money Il Destriero Scafusia cost, I don't want a 7750 powering my watch. As nice as that watch was its value tanked after they were sold, unlike those of many Pateks that either stayed stable or increased in value.

    As for Lemania, I'd much rather have a Lemania powering my watch than a Valjoux 7750. They tend to be less common, and found in better watches like Breget, Patek (their old chronos and perpetual calendar chronograph) and VCs. Although, I'd pass on a UN. A friend had one that spent 6-8 months of the first two years of ownership going back for warranty repairs. My friend was really sorry about making that purchase.


     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  3. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    

    thanks gdl, i was wondering what the SIHH was getting at, as it seemed some of the brands included were partner brands and others were not, and as you said they clearly cherry picked who they wanted, maybe to hopefully come up with some semi predetermined result, as you said for marketing purposes.

    it reminded me of another study i read about a little while back placing, iirc, JLC as the "best" (or some other odd adjective) "luxury" watch. now i love JLC and wear one almost daily, but its no patek or AP.... point being, these surveys and studies touch me off, because they are almost always pointed and they mislead the general public, who inevitably ends up reading these things walking away with absurd notions. /rant



    i wondered if it was about costs, but i had a hard time believing that. at these price points these brands can just up the price to cover such costs, and the public will happily go along. hell, they often raise prices without any changes at all. im kinda stumped as to what the decision process was. likely comfort as mentioned above, but they could have devised a nicer alternative.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  4. akatsuki

    akatsuki Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,648
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Brooklyn, SF, Tokyo
    

    I suppose this is turning into a ranking of watch brands quickly... I end up agreeing with the Watch Snob in general that unless you are esoteric and getting into Philip Dufour territory, A Lange and Patek are probably at the top. I don't know if I would put AP up against them :) JLC might be about equal to AP in my estimation...
     
  5. gdl203

    gdl203 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    36,646
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    The JLC single deployant was famous for being a poor fit on most wrists. It was fairly long and only sat well on wider wrists that could accommodate a long piece of metal like that. Anyone with small wrists would experience a slip to the side of the wrist, so the watch wouldn't sit straight.
     
  6. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    I guess I missed the most important detail!!! In short, it tracks the phases of the moon over the course of a lunar month, which is approximately 29.5 days.

    Jason Heaton does a good job of explaining it in further detail here

    favorite passage: "Never a complication of necessity, the moon phase is more about the watchmaker’s connection to time itself. It is a sort of microcosm of the larger gear train of our universe with its intermeshing planetary orbits and cycles."
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  7. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    

    well, i wouldnt want this lovely thread to turn into a brand whore convo, even though i likely am one. i like the broad range of watch appreciation here.

    that being said, "the big 3" "top" luxury watch brands are usually considered to be;

    Patek
    Audemars
    Vacheron

    and i think AP is in that list deservedly, they are at the top of the high end watch pyramid imo.

    i think that JLC might very well be as capable as the likes of AP and others in making tip top grande complications and such, and are certainly at the top of the creative game. they also supply movements to almost all manufactures. however, they also makes watches in a more entry level price point, which sadly tends to bring down peoples perception of the brand. unlike your APs A Langes and Pateks that start in the mid to low 5 digit range.

    but, to each their own.


    well, i have a pretty nice sized wrist, so sadly wimpy dudes gain is my loss. :(

    :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  8. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,658
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Location:
    Zulu minus 7
    

    ya...that makes more sense. :fonz: But it was still interesting! :nodding:
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  9. Cuttingboard

    Cuttingboard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,069
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Location:
    Austin, TX & Arlington, VA
    

    Very good explanation...thank you.
     
  10. Rambo

    Rambo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    27,312
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Location:
    I'M IN MIAMI, BITCH
  11. akatsuki

    akatsuki Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,648
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Brooklyn, SF, Tokyo
    

    I suppose I am continuing the brand whoring aspect a bit, but at least I am trying to explain why I feel the way I do:

    I think Lange is considered to be on par with Patek (mostly because Philip Dufour spends his time lamenting how the Swiss watch industry (including Patek) was falling behind the Germans, (namely Lange), and I also believe the only watch he has ever bought was a Lange). I'll agree with you that the cheaper watches can change perceptions, but the thing is, if you buy pretty much any Patek or Lange, you are getting a top class movement finished to the nth degree. The same is not true of every brand. For example, the Credor Eichi I posted earlier might be finished to an even higher standard than a Dufour, but nobody is going to put Seiko in that top class even though they are eminently capable of producing a top watch.
     
  12. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    

    i hear what you are saying, and there is no doubting the all around accolades any lange deserves deserves. from movement quality, complexity, finishing and beauty to the same of its cases and bands. "the big 3" i referred to is just something people say (albeit there is no doubt in my mind those brands do belong at the top), and i have no problem per-se putting lange in their company. there are yet other makers, some smaller and more obscure, like f.p. journe, that are just as excellent and could be put in the same conversation. still, i feel AP belongs there. their quality is on par imo.

    as to seiko, i have read a lot about their higher end watches and what goes into making them. they are truly great watches. i however have a hard time putting them in the company of the above. just how i feel.


    sorry, im not up with this problem. what are trying to get and why/for whom?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  13. Warren G.

    Warren G. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,729
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    New Orleans, Louisiana

    Rambo from that list. I guess just stick with Michael Kor and Gucci. Chicks really dig rose gold or white bracelet piece.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  14. Warren G.

    Warren G. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,729
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    
    I really like those two Zenith. The 2nd one is more legible. That was one of my main beef with some Zenith watches. Some of the chronograph was really hard on my eyes in person. If you live near by an AD, I would highly recommend you to try it on in person. Sometimes the pictures can be really misleading. Like from my experiences, I fall in love with some watch I hated before, and vice versa. But good luck on your decision and remember to post some pics :D
     
  15. Cuttingboard

    Cuttingboard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,069
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Location:
    Austin, TX & Arlington, VA
    

    Thanks...I need to do more research because I heard that some people have a difficult time reading the dial.
     
  16. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011

    I should be the one thanking you. I always had a nebulous idea of why I liked the moon phase, but never had to think about it at length or put it in writing. So thanks to you sir--I never woulda found that awesome Jason Heaton article either!

    As far as JLC over Zenith or any other watch, you have to get what you like. I'm gonna tell you about why I like this or that, but at the end of the day you gotta be the one happy about it. I'm starting to rethink how I give advice (aka talk outta my backside) because I really don't want to shit on other peoples choices. After making my comments about IWC for instance, I had to revisit them and look at some of their offerings. Yes, they are modified ETA but some of them arent as expensive as I thought. Do I still think 6-8k is too much to pay for a modified ETA? Yeah! But at the same time I might have spoken too glibly to write off the entire brand in one stroke of the pen. At least Dino was here to give more substance to what I was saying...but yeah I shoulda watched my mouth a bit.

    For the record, I like the El Primero's, if it was me making that decision I'd really try to answer this question: 38mm or 42mm and sportier chrono (#1 in your pix) vs dressier chrono (#2 in your pix)? That would require some legwork.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  17. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Movado museums are legit style IMHO
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  18. Warren G.

    Warren G. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,729
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    

    x10000000000...
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  19. Cylon

    Cylon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011

    For me if youre talking real "HAUTE" stuff its PP and ALS. I dont know if I would include FPJourne. I feel as if that's approaching a slippery slope toward other esoterics like Bethune, Laurent Ferrier, MB&F etc....the list goes on. In all honesty they're all probably esoteric and we are having a pointless discussion.

    I honestly have no idea why I'd put AP and VC a notch below, I just do.


    Edit:

    Oh I know: AP Royal Oak and VC Overseas are unforgivably ugly to me.

    VC Patrimony and Jules Audemars however....[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  20. Warren G.

    Warren G. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,729
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    I'd still put VC up there with PP and ALS. Maybe I'm a huge Richemont whore. Because I'm also a huge fan of Cartier and Montblanc. Montblanc has come a really long way.

    I was at their boutique a few months ago and I was blown away by their Villeret collection.

    This is my probably my favorite chronograph at the moment. The watch wears really well, despite being 43mm...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by