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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. gopherblue

    gopherblue Senior member

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    More navel-gazing today. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Mimo, I thought being demented was a prerequisite to posting here? I can see the Harmoney is trying to invoke the interesting case shape and asymmetry as I stated in my prior post "This looks to me like with the success of the 1921 they decided to make a similar shape ..." I actually like asymmetric cases and dial layouts. I just think it poorly executed on this model and lack the elegance of the 1921. VC, PP, AP, JLC and others have offered watches with asymmetric dials that I really like. Sadly, and I am a VC fan, I just don't think the Harmony is their best work.

    Lots of used Cartier Roadsters were made, so finding a pre owned one shouldn't pose much problem.
    Finding the blue dial model could be tougher, as I believe it was a limited production watch. Still if you are patient, I'm sure you will eventually locate a blue one for sale.
     
  3. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    I've added all these to my "hit list" thanks! I didn't go in the museum, no. It was just a drive-by with our agent, who was showing us around a bit. I'll be back though.

    Also now on the list; I do quite enjoy French (cuisine). Thanks!


    You just don't miss an opportunity to defend your title, do you, Mimo!
     
  4. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    What is your view on the PP World Timer Ref. 5130, preferrably in white gold?
     
  5. gopherblue

    gopherblue Senior member

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    ^ one of the only Pateks I actually like.
     
  6. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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  7. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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  8. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    In and of itself the 5130 looks great in the metal; I was sorely tempted by the one in white gold and a bracelet long ago. At its listed 39.5mm case size it is also a bit more appealing to modern tastes for larger watches, though that isn't necessarily a plus for me. My issue with the 5130 and other currently produced Pateks is that I end up looking at preowned pieces that are out of production (like the 5110P, for example) given the 5130's price point, even despite the recent 7% price cut in the U.S. We're talking about MSRP in the high 30s/low 40s (high 60s for the bracelet version) - so when I was making a decision long ago I went for perpetual calendars that were no longer in production (although to be fair, I also prefer the aesthetic and complication of a perpetual calendar versus a World Time). Within the hierarchy of Patek World Timers, once one gets to the 60s in terms of price point, I would probably much rather wait for the enamel dial 5131 from an AD. But that's assuming one wants to wait! Here's a pic of the new 5131 in rose gold, from a friend of mine who runs a Patek/Tiffany in the west coast (they just received one a few days ago): [​IMG] Wonder if they have space anywhere to even put the Tiffany logo in there. Or if Patek would allow them to (technically Patek only allows co-branding with Tiffany for pieces "below" their "Grand Complication" classification - so the World Timers do qualify - but where does one stamp this one?!). Let me ask.
     
  9. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks for your reply. Two observations:

    - I do understand the new-vs-pre-owned logic, but I am looking at pre-owned 5130s. 5396s, rail dial or not, would be much higher than what a 5130 costs in my region. The alternative would be an 5146, but that somehow does not appeal to me. Even a 3940 PC would be >30k EUR, and the one I would want is the WG model, more likely to be >35k.

    - Have you ever seen the 5131 in real life? The upper-case Zapf Chancery font on the dial? The engraving on the bezel? Forgive me, but I would not put it on my wrist, no matter what. And, yes, the enamel thing requires extra-small dwarfs to put it on the dial, and it the baking oven is 1° too hot then everything will go wrong and so on. Ask yourself - would you put this on your wrist if it was a US$2500 Longines special edition?


    Oh, and about the Tiffany branding. In what way would that "help" the watch being more interesting? Would it not rather be the other way around, a PP logo on Tiffany's ubiquitous stuff which you can even order over the internet.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  10. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    I have put several 5131s on my wrist - and I quite like the aesthetic. You are free to disagree. Your dismissive point about Tiffany is amusing, and makes you come across as snarky (which is neither good nor bad). But, read my post carefully. Nowhere did I say that it would add anything of interest to a watch. I mentioned it in passing as part of the pic I posted, which came from a friend who worked for Tiffany. With that said, there are a number of folks who would pay a premium for Tiffany co-branded vintage pieces. I am not one of them, but I appreciate the appeal. I'm assuming you're not a fan, and that's okay too.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  11. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    Snarky yes but not aimed at you.

    I do see the appeal of dealer stamps like Bucherer, Tiffany and the like on vintage pieces, when these dealers actually added some credibility to the brand, when the were positioned much more upmarket themselves. In fact, I think it would be quite cool to have a white gold 1960ies Cala with a period dealer logo on the dial. Remember how the font sizes were back then, very small and almost illegible.

    Today, when even PP have become sort-of mass market producers and Tiffany sells keyrings and bookmarks for a could of bucks and can be found on every high street and airport shopping mall (= the Hermes phenomenon) I doubt that this kind of thing would add anything (not value, but charme) to a watch. Bucherer has become a high-street mass-market outlet, too. And Les Ambassadeurs, which you may know from a trip to Zurich or Geneva, isn't much better.

    Let's just hope PP doesn't co-brand their watches with P-Diddy, Lion Snoop Whatever and others.

    Back to your question re Tiffany-stamping the marmite 5131 - even IF they would find a space on the rather busy dial, just imagine how Tiffany's logo would clash with the all-caps (WHY?) Chancercy font of PP's own "design". All-caps Kiddie Font vs. Small-caps Roman.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  12. dsn112

    dsn112 Member

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    Boutiques give no discounts, most ADs will give around 20%.
     
  13. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    Sorry - I misinterpreted the direction of your snark. When you asked me direct questions about whether I've seen a 5131, why Tiffany co-branding makes a watch interesting, or whether I would wear an enamel dial Longines, I was misled into thinking you were being snarky towards me. Tone your rants down a bit and you might actually get substantive responses to your original question. Otherwise, you'll be written off and blocked like so many other wanna be's that have come and gone in TWAT; some take longer to understand the obvious hints that few, if anyone, are actually interested in engaging them, but eventually it sinks in that they are behaving like trolls and their posts aren't worth anyone's time. Best wishes on your search. Given the other choices you mentioned above, I would personally go for a 3940 (well, actually, I did!), but it seems like you have a fairly well defined set of preferences already.
     
  14. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    Well, I don't know you. So how can my replies be aimed at you as a person?

    Just take life a bit more easy.
     
  15. tigerpac

    tigerpac Senior member

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    20% is good these days for Omega unless you're already established with the AD
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  16. gopherblue

    gopherblue Senior member

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    @Meurice: I agree re the enamel dial, as well as the Tiffany co-branding. Of the world timers out there, the 5130 is a classic (although the more contemporary resized version of the classic). I personally prefer it in Pt, since I like the dial more, but the WG is nice too.

    This thread can occasionally become an echo-chamber, and for some there are certain brands that can do no wrong. Regardless of whether merited or not.

    I judge watches one at a time, not by the brand. Some brands are more consistent than others; some brands trade on their name and marketing spend more than others. Even Patek has its share of duds, and frankly, its status, while oftentimes merited, is not the be-all-end-all for those who are horologically inclined. But branding is critical to some.

    I suspect I may be one of those folks that certain people on this thread have written off and/or blocked, but that's not for lack of relevant content or input. Some people just don't like it when you call a spade a spade.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  17. dsn112

    dsn112 Member

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    Not really, was in one In NJ not too long ago, no relationship, and as long as I was paying by cash or check was 20%. Trusted sellers on forums are selling watches coming straight from ADs at near 30% off. All depends how you want to acquire it.
     
  18. academe

    academe Senior member

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    @Dino944 I understand your point re: preferring the cleaner, 2-hand, manually-wound version of the Toledo compared to the current 3-hand automatic. I think I would prefer a cleaner-dialled version, too. I suppose, having had one of these on the wrist, that I didn't have the strong negative reaction to the dial that you did. Sure, I don't like the three-hand date version as much, nor do I like the more complicated versions of this watch either. However, neither did I dislike the version I posted; in fact, quite the opposite - I liked the dial detailing. The positioning of the 12 & 6 helped "stretch" the watch in the vertical plane, so that there's an illusion of length/extension, in-line with the strap.As a consequence, the watch doesn't come across looking as "boxy" as it otherwise might when one looks at the dial, or if the numbers were aligned in the horizontal plane. I also like the detailing around the hands of the watch (I can't remember the technical term? Is the graining made by machine-turning or a guilloche technique? I'm not an expert).It adds visual interest without being over-done, and catches the light under different conditions. Use of an auto movement and centre-seconds makes this watch more of a daily-wearer to me, rather than a formal dress watch. The simpler, original two-hander strikes me more as a formal dress watch, rather than a daily-wearer. So made for a different purpose, even the differences are only small and subtle. Would I prefer the original two-hand watch? Probably, but that doesn't mean I would kick this watch out of bed, either. YMMV.

    PS Is this the original 2-hander you mentioned?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  19. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks.

    While PP is indeed my favourite manufacturer (not "brand"), I actually only like a fraction of their model range. But the same goes for many other things in life. Companies, artists, people can get one thing right - and make a mess with everything else they do.

    I like the matter-of-fact aura of PP in the 1980-1990ies. It was so simple, it did not need to be explained or endorsed by celebrities. A few watches manage to capture that special nimbus - 3940, 5110, 96. Minute repeaters in general. PP's design used to be very sober (and a 5127 still looks a bit like an oversized Timex), Breguet and later Lange & Söhne started this whole retro thing. Contrary to common wisdom on some watch fora I dont not neccessarily believe that a "proper" PP needs to be a complicated one - a 5196 or 5119 are very fine watches, simple and unique.
     
  20. tricky

    tricky Senior member

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    Here's my current collection. The Stowa may go at some point. Not sure what's next. I really like:

    JLC Reverso
    Panerai 337/338
    Omega Speedmaster Pro
    Rolex Pepsi GMT birth year

    Too many good options out there!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
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