The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Dino944]



Great information Dino!   I did not know some of the nuances of the Tank collection that you have mentioned.

Thanks JB, I'm glad you found it interesting. Cartier is often dismissed as a jewelry maker, and garners less respect than big names, by those who are not very familiar with their watches. However, they have a very rich history in the world of watch and have made many exceptional pieces over the years. The Tank collection alone has an amazing history and numerous variations such as the Tank Obus, Tank Cintree (a favorite of the "King of cool"Steve McQueen), Tank Chinoise, and Tank Asymetric just to name a few (which are highly collectible). They make some great products, but my favorites are their pieces from the past.

 

[Belligero]



[...]The problem with the Submariner nowadays is that it was never meant to be a luxury watch. It was supposed to be a high quality, robust working tool that a working person could afford and rely on. Not cheap, but not luxury. Put simply, there is absolutely nothing in the modern submariner that makes it worth 7000 dollars. Neither the engineering nor the materials nor the COSC certification (easily acheived by watches orders of magnitude cheaper and home tinkerers everywhere). By that reasoning, I might as well go for a Daytona at 11k, since at least that offers a chronograph. The Submariner is by all means a quality piece, but you can achieve the same quality or better from any number of other brands making steel divers. What you are paying for with Rolex is the aggressive marketing, the purposeful display of conspicuous consumption, and essentially downpaying for increased resale prices down the road.[...]

There's no question that the marketing has been successful. The thing is that its price reflects the cost of producing things to that quality standard in Switzerland these days. Consider Nomos; a Zurich model it's proportional to what an OP or a Datejust costs; if it came on a bracelet they'd cost about the same. Nomos is an absolutely great company, and you can hardly accuse them of being a conspicuous-consumption label or a marketing big spender. Not cheap either, but worth the money. The quality is definitely there in both cases (no pun intended).

They're one of the few companies that's comparable to Rolex in degree of independence and design/manufacturing integrity , though. If you don't outsource your component production to cheap-labour countries, a quality watch is going to be expensive to make. While it's certainly not cheap, I happen to think that the Submariner offers a lot of value for the money, all things considered. And that's not even considering the lack of design originality from most competitors. It's a truly no-excuses watch, which is not a common thing in the industry.

 

[DerangedGoose]

There's no question that the marketing has been successful. The thing is that its price reflects the cost of producing things to that quality standard in Switzerland these days. Consider Nomos; a Zurich model it's proportional to what an OP or a Datejust costs; if it came on a bracelet they'd cost about the same. Nomos is an absolutely great company, and you can hardly accuse them of being a conspicuous-consumption label or a marketing big spender. Not cheap either, but worth the money. The quality is definitely there in both cases (no pun intended).

They're one of the few companies that's comparable to Rolex in degree of independence and design/manufacturing integrity , though. If you don't outsource your component production to cheap-labour countries, a quality watch is going to be expensive to make. While it's certainly not cheap, I happen to think that the Submariner offers a lot of value for the money, all things considered. And that's not even considering the lack of design originality from most competitors. It's a truly no-excuses watch, which is not a common thing in the industry.

The submariner is definitely a victim of its own success, but "no excuses" must also apply to its exorbitant price tag. It houses the same movement as a Datejust, what is there to justify so much extra?

A casual search for a new mens datejust turns up a suggested msrp of $6800, I think a Nomos Zurich on a bracelet would be a fair amount less than that. What is impressive about Nomos is they are producing their own movements, at or above Rolex quality, with more handfinishing and way smaller economy of scale, and they are STILL undercutting Rolex on price. Rolex has been making the same stuff for decades, their margins are rock bottom at this point. You are getting way more for your money with Nomos. That and the datejust is overall a hideous watch. Various confused dials with arabic numerals in a sport font, the silly fluted bezel, the whole thing is just absurd looking, and the two tone look is even worse.

As a tool watch (its actual intended purpose) the Submariner really doesnt offer any value at all. I can buy a stronger, lighter watch for less money from their very own subsidiary, to say nothing of the myriad of other inhouse divers out there. Other big houses, even mainstream ones like Omega, are pushing innovation while Rolex rests on laurels earned decades ago. It may last them another 50 years but it wont be forever.

As Rolex has pushed the Submariner ever market, it deserves ever more stringent scrutiny against upmarket standards, and it simply doesnt measure up.

 

[BostonHedonist]

Ok gentlemen, which do we prefer?

Or

 

[Hayward]

Much of Rolex's innovation nowadays appears to be in materials and production over design. The Shogun is a wonderful watch for the money, but I couldn't get used to the hands and markers.

 

[DerangedGoose]

Even though Im not a fan of extra crowns for the gas escape valve (Rolex got it right in this regard), I would go with the Seamaster. I think the explorer gets a lot of hype and is rather boring looking. Some people call it "understated" but to me it just looks pedestrian. The ceramic blue seamasters are very sharp, especially with the twisted lugs Omega is known for.

The Rolexes to get would be the GV Milgauss or the Everose Daytona, IMO

 

[Hayward]



Ok gentlemen, which do we prefer?

Or

Rollie. Could never understand the manual helium valve on the Omega.

 

[Hayward]

Actually, on second thought...

 

[mimo]

Ok gentlemen, which do we prefer?

Neither. The Seamaster GMT with the white markers instead of the orange one you posted (or the Aqua Terra GMT for that matter!), and the BLNR over the Explorer II.

Given the actual choice of those two pictures though, I think the Rolex wins. Because of their conspicuous consumption, and also niceness.

 

[DerangedGoose]

I second the Grand Seiko or the Aqua Terra. Other than the parachrom nonmagnetic hairpsring and ceramic bezels (technologies other manufacturers have) what are Rolexes grand innovations?

The CoAxial escapement is widely regarded as the most important horological innovation of the last 100 years, and Omega snapped it up.

 

[RogerP]

Those are beautiful sunglasses! What model of SALT are they?

Agreed both watch and shades are terrific.

 

[RogerP]

Ok gentlemen, which do we prefer?



Or

I have literally held these two side by side and had an overwhelming preference for the Omega. It really pops in person. The Rolex looked pretty dull and generic beside it.

 

[DerangedGoose]

Soon I will get myself a Speedy Pro. The best chronograph out there. Some people were saying theyve gone 10+ years without service and kept time within 20s a day, and its a tough watch you can wear without fear. Thats what a watch should be, in my opinion.

Can you Imagine if they made a titanium speedy pro with screw crown and pushers? Game over.

 

[Steel28]



Soon I will get myself a Speedy Pro. The best chronograph out there. Some people were saying theyve gone 10+ years without service and kept time within 20s a day, and its a tough watch you can wear without fear. Thats what a watch should be, in my opinion.

Can you Imagine if they made a titanium speedy pro with screw crown and pushers? Game over.

Speedy Pro is a good watch, except if you decide to go for a swim.

 

[DLJr]

Hence his comment about screw crown and pushers.