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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Pretty great. I don't think I like the version that integrates the case and dial into the movement, on aesthetic grounds, but even that is pretty cool.
     
  2. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Like. Very like. It manages to be both properly dressy, and distinctive. A rare combination, I think. It's quite large for a dress watch, but that slim, crisp case is lovely, and I like the subsidiary seconds - two hands might be the dressiest of dressy in theory, but I think this arrangement is extremely elegant.

    But. Two drawbacks. One, there just isn't the love for this maker so depreciation will be a whore. Then again, buy used and that glass is half full. But two, the platinum one has "platinum" written all over the dial. They must have lost their minds. I don't wear gold myself, and think white gold is a bit soft and vulnerable, especially with those lovely crisp case edges. That's just me perhaps, but that writing on the dial of the PT...eeech.

    Anyway, that aside, I think it's gorgeous. Check out the Double-Jeu as well. It actually made me grin from ear to ear.
     
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  3. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Senior member

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    It's thinner than a damn Wheat Thin!
     
  4. AriGold

    AriGold Senior member

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    THinking of getting an IWC portguese chrono OR a portuguese automatic 7 days.

    I heard that the automatic 7 days has an upgraded movement this year so that its more accurate.

    Which one should I cop, given the approximately 3k price differential?!
     
  5. NonServiam

    NonServiam Senior member

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    The downside of pushers for date setting is that I never seem to have a proper tool at hand when throwing on a watch in a hurry.

    So, JLC MUT Moon on today, and the date is still wrong. Now, I'm sure I had a paper clip somewhere ...

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    @pmeis - Nice work! I sometimes daydream about stumbling into a used watch shop and finding a great, affordable example of something high on my list. I respect the choice for something "funky" and unusual. As for the strap, if it were me, I'd go for something tool watch oriented, and because I'm a fan of orange accents, I'd go with a strap that brought that out in the hands. Two possibilities:


    Ballistic Nylon Nato, (from DaLuca)
    [​IMG]
    PU Ballistic Waterproof (also from DaLuca)
    [​IMG]

    But to each his own. The classic perforated leather strap for that model would be great too.



    @mimo Great points about Piaget. All in all I really like the Altiplano; particularly the placement of the small subdial - though I don't think I like them twice as much as the Jaeger's MUTs, which is what they cost. (Very neat, re the Double Jeu, btw.) I wonder, who first obsessed with the whole "Ultra Thin" concept? We've got the Jaeger Master Ultra Thin. And then Piaget proclaims on their website they're the Master of Ultra Thin. Then a year ago, not to be outdone, JLC comes out with the MUT Jubilee, one-upping Piaget on thinness (becoming the thinnest watch...in the world?).

    Seems like a rivalry that doesn't often get spoken of. Right up there with Rolex VS Omega and Seiko VS... the world.

    And now a fun fact. Did you all know that gold is currently worth more than platinum? Though you wouldn't know it looking at watch prices! (Yes I know, platinum is harder to work with...)
     
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  7. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Makes the 40mm case work as a dress watch, I think...and more personality than a JLC GUT, imho.

    The newer one has a different case shape too, and a fancy movement with a display case back through which one can admire it. Personally I just like the design of the old one - become a bit of a classic I think. And there's that price difference...for the price of the newer one, there are too many other top chronos. A used older Port Chrono is my vote.

    Looks nice. And a ballpoint pen is both gentle and widely available. The ink won't adhere and the round ball makes accidental scratches unlikely.


    The rivalry is all the more intriguing as they have the same owner. But I guess Piaget is just a quirky boutique brand in comparison, and doesn't get the push JLC does in movie placement, etc. (and none get as much as IWC!). Their other stablemate, Roger Dubuis, is perhaps a better analogue.

    But apples and oranges with Alti vs MUT: the Alti is only available in gold, and in such form can be found quite a bit cheaper than the gold MUT, I think. Anyway, each to his own. And even though it's a nonsense, I really lust after that Double Jeu: what's more anachronistic and brilliantly over-engineered than a super-thin dress watch with a GMT hand? A super-thin dress watch with an extra super-thin dress watch behind it to power the GMT hand. Brilliantly gratuitous!
     
  8. pmeis

    pmeis Senior member

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    Thanks for the suggestions. The NATO is a good suggestion. I'm unlikely to put a "regular" leather strap as during the summer I tend to kill leather straps a bit with sweat. I'll probably pick up a NATO and a Hirsch Performance strap. They have a perforated one with white stitching that should work great.
     
  9. Kaplan

    Kaplan Senior member

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    That Altiplano Double Jeu is brilliant for when you don't want people to know what other time zone you're tracking.
     
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  10. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    I'm a huge fan. I don't have one yet, but hope to add one to my collection some day. They are elegant, understated, beautifully finished, and they are one of the few brands like JLC that has always made their movements in house, and at times sold their movements to some of their "Sister companies." JLC is often a bargain because they make watches in steel, while Piaget doesn't. However, I'd have to give the nod to Piaget over JLC. Although, both offer a great value compared to what similar watches would cost if buying one from PP, AP, or VC.

    This is a quick photo of one of their movements that they supplied to Cartier. Its my Tank XL, finished by Cartier, but the workmanship and engineering in making a rectangular movement really sold me on this watch. Most rectangular or square watches even from the "Big Three", you will find companies using a small round existing movement which is generally mainly used their in other round cases, but to save money they then put it in a square or rectangular case.

    [​IMG]


    Not sure what they were smoking, drinking, and snorting when they decided to write "Platinum" on the dial of the Platinum Altiplano. Other than that they make great watches!
    The whole competition for who makes the thinnest watches is decades old. Long before companies focused on building gigantic watches, it was considered a horological art form, to make the thinnest watches and also to make complicated watches that were relatively thin. It doesn't take any true skill to put a perpetual calendar into a 42+ mm case. Larger they make the cases they more room they have to work.

    Piaget and JLC are both great brands, but as I mentioned earlier I'd give the nod to Piaget. I think the finish is just a bit nicer and its a tad closer in finish to what one would get from the Big Three. However, when you are talking about watches of this level, the finish is going to be excellent on both, and its not as if the accuracy is going to be an issue for either movement.

    Platinum is still a cooler metal to have casing a watch. Its rarer, purer, and more durable than gold. In addition, its got a heft/feel that is very different when comparing the same model of watch in PT vs gold. Also, when dealing with dress watches, you are paying for the workmanship more than the metal unless you are speaking of a watch on a bracelet like a Daytona.
    Piaget, is a smaller, lower production brand than JLC,and Piaget really doesn't compete in the same price range (until you reach roughly the $20K mark). Nor does Piaget really compete in the sports watch department. In someways I think JLC is a dressier competitor to IWC, more than it is a competitor to Piaget. I never hear of people considering say some form of JLC Master in gold vs. a Piaget Altiplano.

    I don't own either, but the models I would consider from each are different so different, that it wouldn't be a matter of choosing one brand over the other, it would simply be a matter of which I wanted to add first. With Piaget most likely I'd choose an Altiplano, while with JLC the only model that really does something for me is the Reverso.

    I think you also mentioned resale value of Piaget as being an issue when buying new, but to be honest, unless you are talking Lange, AP, PP, VC, Rolex and Cartier...resale is generally going to be a weak point. I know of a few high end secondary stores that won't purchase anything other than six brands previously mention. So if one where considering a Piaget vs. a JLC, I wouldn't let resale sway me in either direction. Both would take a serious hit if purchased new.

    Both companies make great watches and they could coexist in any great collection without the owner feeling the pieces were redundant.. I certainly hope to have one from each brand some day. Cheers!
     
  11. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    That's a very nice touch with the Tank XL's movement being square - makes a nice canvas for burin work! And I did not know that Piaget was so directly involved. I think I may forever be conscious of what shape a movement is in relationship to a square case and, likely, will not allow myself to buy a round movement in a square case - as it seems a matter of cooperative essences. The Reverso's movement, is that typically in a square shape? If not, I suppose that may be the one exception to the rule given its significance as a piece of horological history...

    I fully respect your attitude toward desiring the more iconic or renowned models put out by a given watchmaker, and tend to follow a similar mode of thinking. When it came to Omega, the Speedmaster seemed the logical choice. For Rolex, I'd take a Sub or GMT, but probably not a Daytona. With Piaget, I agree about the Altiplano.

    But for some reason, I tend to think of Jaeger LeCoultre as an exception, wherein virtually everything they manufacture (at least the pieces that are not very complicated) is something I would be happy to own and wear. I wouldn't be able to list the brands they've built movements for earning their reputation as "watchmaker to watchmakers," but even when they've undertaken a concept pioneered by another company, they've given it enough of their own spin to really stand out. Moreover, they somehow manage to produce so many pieces with excellent movements and lovely finishes that still managed to be perceived as a great value among the competition. I would wager that, aside from Rolex and their freakish superpower of appreciating in value, the average sub $20k JLC watch would typically represent the best overall value in its horological class when considering movement quality, finish, personality and prestige. I'd love to have a Reverso, a Master Perpetual Calendar, a MUT Moon, the Master Chronograph is very handsome and I quite like Memovox and the Deep Sea. The compressors I'm not crazy about, but I respect what they're doing and some people just go nuts for them.

    I think overall JLC is about the most underrated watchmaker. But maybe I've just got a crush.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
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  12. Dachshund

    Dachshund Senior member

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    ^ I'm a huge fan of Dino's CPCP Tank, which I quite unashamedly covet and would sell my grandmother for. Go on, Dino, show us the front again.
     
  13. tigerpac

    tigerpac Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    the JLC 976 movement is fairly square.
     
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  14. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Reverso movements, at least many of the manual wind models (I've never had an interest in an automatic Reverso) are oval or capsule shaped, so its not as though they are sticking a round movement in square watch. Below is one of my VC's that uses JLC cal 822 as a base. Its nice, but I like design of the movement in my Tank XL more.
    [​IMG]

    I think you definitely have a JLC crush. Nothing wrong with that. At one point I was very enamored with the brand, but being honest they have made plenty of dogs too (most brands do). For me, with a few rare exceptions in the Master series, I find most JLCs outside of the Reverso line up a bit on the sterile to boring side.

    JLC represents a great value, as something with similar designs from Lange, PP, AP, and VC would cost significantly more. As for your statement that "The average sub $20k JLC watch would typically represent the best overall value in its horological class when considering movement quality, finish, personality and prestige," think that's a bit of an overstatement. Up to 10K sure, or maybe $15K, but once you are getting close to $20K, I would be looking at other brands. If you are concerned with prestige in a lesser price range, particularly with people who don't know watches well stay with Rolex. If you want prestige in the roughly $20K or a bit less, I'd go with VC Traditionelle, Piaget, or maybe even the FPJ C Blue (that seems to be a favorite here). Those definitely are finished as well if not better than a comparably priced JLC, have more prestige with people who know watches, and the VC would be easier to resell or trade if necessary...I can't speak for the resale of the Journe.

    In the end, for me JLCs are great watches, and I love the Reverso. I could see myself spending maybe up to $15K on a JLC...but anything beyond that and I think the value argument is greatly diminished do to stiffer competition in terms of workmanship, movements, overall design (although that is subjective), prestige, and resale. Just my 2 cents.
    [​IMG] I'd definitely sell a few in-laws for another in platinum !
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
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  15. Dachshund

    Dachshund Senior member

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    Dino, you're a gent, thanks for sharing that again - one of my favourites! [​IMG]
     
  16. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    Yeah, @Dino944 , I could certainly have said under $15k and therein we'd find a majority of the watches I was referencing. Around $18k or so, I'd quite instantly start looking at VC. As enamored as I feel with JLC under $15, I feel doubly so for VC above the $15k mark.
     
  17. Grammaton Cleric

    Grammaton Cleric Senior member

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    Love JLC, and would happily blow past the $15K barrier for pieces like the Reverso 1931 Center Seconds or the Duometre Lunaire. The best value, high-end manufacture.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
  18. Winot

    Winot Senior member

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    As we're talking JLC, this caught my eye in the Royal Arcade in London last week:

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Always a pleasure my friend. Glad to share one of my favorites! [​IMG]

    I think at $15K your statement is very strong at $18K
    I'm also a big fan of JLC. However, there is a limit to what I think any of their products are worth. The Reverso 1931 center seconds is nice, but I don't love the center seconds hand, and to me part of what makes a Reverso a Reverso is a manual wind movement...its nice looking but at almost $19K there are other watches I'd rather have. As for the Duometre, I don't find it attractive at all, and there are far better watches available for that kind of money. IMHO, JLC offers great value, but once I'm spending a certain amount, I want the best...not simply a great value. But look at it this way, without me spending beyond $15K for a JLC...there are more Duometre's and 1931 Center Seconds available for you! [​IMG]
     
  20. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Senior member

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    I am partial to JLC generally, but I certainly didn't mean that in a negative way. It's impressively thin… like a Wheat Thin, although I suspect not quite as crunchy. :)
     
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