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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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  2. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dino, that is how I see it and I am suprised that the Nautilus has become more or less the "Only acceptable Patek for people who already own several dumbbell-sized sport Rolex watches".
     
  3. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    PLEASE! Want to read it, with pleasure.
     
  4. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    QUESTION

    Looking for grail/exit watch, want to buy pre-owned, short list narrowed down to two, please help me solving the following conundrum:

    PP 5130G, the facelifted world timer (39mm) in white gold with leather strap and deployment clasp, ca. 2008 - EUR 28,000.
    Looking at the 5130's market development pre-owned prices seem to go up. I compared it with the 5110G/P but that one is too small for me (although I usually prefer 35-37mm watches). On the one hand, I am intrigued by this whole 1960ies design/sunburst centre of dial/PanAm-Jet-Age thing, on the other hand I am worried about its suitability for my daily wardrobe - mainly navy blue suits, white shirts and Hermes ties in blues, burgundies and greys.


    OR

    PP 5396G, in its more recent, non-sector-dial inclination. About EUR 33,000 upwards.
    A statement of a watch. Dial so plain I will probably never get tired of it. Price difference to 5130 not to be neglected, funds could be diverted into other purchases (need new SAB briefcase, etc). QUESTION FOR BELLIGERO: What to you think about the date windows - too narrow?


    Initially I thought I wanted a RG watch but I now believe this whole RG thing is a fad which will go way sooner or later. I travel a lot and a white metal is much more under-the-radar. I have a small collection of Hermes cufflinks in sterling silver which would go along with WG very well.

    On the one hand I think I should pick this one 5130 up at that dealer where it has been on his shelves for too long, on the other hand I believe I should wait until a 5396 comes along, given that they are relatively new they are still inclinded to go down in price and pop up on the pre-owned market more often.

    BONUS QUESTION:

    What are your views on the 5035P annual cal? It seems they have reached their bottom value at around EUR 22,000. What's not to like...unless you consider they're relative size (37mm), Roman numbers (quiet unfashionable at the moment) in particular if combined with a black dial (which is more sporty) and the generally quite busy dial with a lot of action going on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  5. kimmo

    kimmo Senior member

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    OK, speaking about the hobby on the cheap, ordered some NATOs for the upcoming purchase and decide to dress one of the beaters with a new strap:

    [​IMG]

    About the watch, Revue Thommen is one of those classic brands which took a big nosedive later. Under Grovana haven't picked up, I think they're on their third or fourth coming now. This particular chrono is a Valjoux 7750, which they tried to peddle at 2,5 k€ which for a junior Omega-quality but a lesser brand didn't fly. Picked up at 70% discount a few years ago, which is a completely different price proposition. Excellent beater chrono for that money.
     
  6. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    Fully agree - and at the same time there is a (small) market for the A8, specc'd up but in a discreet colour.

    Guess what car I am driving?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  7. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    Sunday in church with a little Swiss-German. Oh and some 3sixteens too :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. aleksandr

    aleksandr Senior member

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    Oh this is nice!



    :tinfoil: :(


    Sadly I think my tastes leans more towards the style of the douchebag with the giant panerai than the more refined gentlemen we usually see here.


    How about - set up a rotation such that it doesn't get worn more than once every few days and don't put it on a winder so you have to set it each time you wear it anyway.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  9. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Send it to Joma. There's a warranty, use it. You've paid for it. And if they mess it up, they can replace it.
     
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  10. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    You're probably right Mimo.

    In other news.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Nice rubber.:)
     
  12. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Well, as I mentioned in a prior post, the Nautilus was long thought of as unworthy of the Calatrava Cross. However with rumors Patek was discontinuing production of steel watches, just after production of the 3712 was in production suddenly the Nautilus was the darling the the brand, people were willing to pay well over list to get one. Eventually, everyone learned the Nautilus would continue on in the forms of the 5711, 5712, and their offshoots, but a younger generation had a different perception after the rumors and frenzy about the model.
    The 5130 in its current form is better than the original, which was a tough sell for most dealers. One of my local AD's hated the originals as he was stuck with a bunch of them even when offering big discounts. The current model looks a bit better to me, but I still don't love it and some of the JLC models seem a bit more functional.

    In addition, I don't see the use of RG as a fad or thing that will go away. Many makers now only offer dress watches in WG or RG. In addition, even for 2 tone watches, brands like VC, AP, Patek and Rolex, have all added steel and RG watches to their line ups. Depending on the age of the wearer I often like RG more than YG because its less brassy, a bit more understated, and IMHO allows younger collectors to wear a gold watch without it looking like something they borrowed from their dad or their boss. WG, I just don't love. It doesn't have the heft, purity, or durability of PT, it looks a bit like steel, and with some makers plating the WG with rhodium depending on how rough you are on watches it may need replating to remain white, rather than show its more natural gray undertone. I've owned a WG watch, but sold it have have little desire to own another WG watch.

    Overall, I like the more classic dial of the 5396, but I wish the date window didn't cut into the 24 hour indicator. It detracts from what would have been a more appealing design to me. I would rather they put a date subdial on it rather than the 24 hour subdial, and maybe give just a day night indicator that didn't require a full subdial. But then it might have looked too much like the true perpetual calendars of the Patek past and they didn't want that, plus it may have required a bit of redesigning an existing movement.

    As for the 5035, its dial never really appealed to me. My father considered one briefly, but chose a different model at the time.
    Anyway wishing you luck on whatever you decide.
     
  13. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    Only the finest rubber for TWAT
     
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  14. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    Not a very inspiring reply, as it basically confirms my worries:)

    So, what about a 5146G instead? Too pedestrian due to bland Arial numbers?
     
  15. tigerpac

    tigerpac Senior member

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    Is there a reason you're only looking at Pateks? You don't seem to love any of them. Not a bad brand to be looking at all of course but if none are singing to you don't get one just because of the name. Not sure you are, just throwing it out there.
     
  16. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    Narrowed it down from a longer list of manufacturers already.

    I think the 5396G is as timeless as it is boring, and the 5130 is as unique as it is a bit nervous.

    Maybe both, 5396 in G and 5130 in R. Love the R glow on the WT.

    Still - if you have any alternatives at hand?

    VC: no, they are somehow PP's wannabe sister company. They even have stuff like the WT and a "sports" model, too "me-too". Patrimony very good but too big.

    AP: Mainly known for their Orang-Utan sized ROs. No thanks.

    ALS: while some of them are nice, the whole story is too much "start up" for my taste.

    Breguet: we are getting there, but again - Hayek's Frankenstein.

    Piaget - Ultrathingy is nice, but in the end it is (like Cartier, whom I like) more a jewellers, not a watchmaker.

    Niche brands: FP Journe...needs to get his act together and stop confusing his dials with a newspaper's page 1; Moser...actually quite interesting; Fleurier...their Patrimony/Ultraplano thing is quite nice but too big for my wrist.

    So, in the end PP's 37 to 39mm models are what would be the best choice. Either bottom-of-barrel 3-hands manual or some sort of complication, in the end the watch needs to "talk to me" and I need to feel some sort of emotional connection.

    Do you have any other suggestions?

    P.S.: I do love the 5140 in WG despite the font issues, that one would be perfect.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  17. tigerpac

    tigerpac Senior member

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    Wow brands are very important to you eh? You're in the league of watches where just about everything is nice so whatever you end up should be beautiful.

    Some observations...

    VC - not sure how it would be PP's wannabe sister brand. Has been in operation longer and has a rich history all its own. More popular in Asian counties than the US from what I've heard so maybe that's where you get that impression from?

    Check out the VC Patrimony Traditionnelle in 38mm. Finishing beats entry-level Patek imo and it has a more interesting dial.


    Moser does make some amazing stuff, try it on in person.


    Not sure what your FP Journe comment means but he does have a unique aesthetic that not everybody will like.


    Cartier's non-entry level stuff is worth a look. They do dilute the brand a bit imo with some of their lower-end pieces but they make excellent stuff when you start to go upmarket.


    What do you think of the JLC MUT Moon 39mm in gold?
     
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  18. Meurice

    Meurice Well-Known Member

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    VC 38mm Patri is nice indeed. The difference to PP is that whatever they do it seems as if they are copy/pasting PP's ideas, or, should that not be the case, PP's execution (see World Timer) is more spot-on.

    I can't help thinking that PP got their act together (family-run business, things like clous de Paris (Mafoofam would pronounce it like "clout" and then claim it was a joke), the Calatrava family going back to the "96" model, World Timers, and so on). A basic 5196 is still so much more a statement it is own right, nowhere near current trends, whereas a comparable VC Patri needs to be jazzed up to be on par. Just an emotional view of it.

    FPJ - yeah, a niche brand and their shop in rue FB is nice, but, as I said, too much going on on the dial. Same goes for most Langes, and while I can understand Belligeros's aversion to PP and their love for Arial, Lange's "Look at me I could be from the 1930ies) thing is too much "in your face" for my liking.

    Moser - watches are nice, still...this whole "let's take a dead guy's name and construct a watch company around it"...no.

    If JLC, then a 50ies J (without LC) Chrono in RG. Still, that does not reply answer the "grail" question.

    About Cartier - I am just about to discover 1960ies Cartier. Very nice, not to be compared with "Le Must" tat.

    So, a watch which speaks for itself but, at the same time, blends in with the overall "me", hence all >40mm watches, super-duper-complications and diamond-encrusted pieces are off the list. A PP 5196P, maybe a VC if in 38mm. A PP 5396G without the nervous train-track dial. MAYBE a 5130G although, again, it makes me dizzy to look at the dial equivalent of Tolstoy's "War and Peace".
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  19. aleksandr

    aleksandr Senior member

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    I concur. My rubber says hi.

    [​IMG]

    Although I am convinced there must be something very Freudian going on with that large cigar and nice rubber..
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  20. gopherblue

    gopherblue Senior member

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    5130G. Personally, I think it is a gorgeous watch and the history of the complication makes it even better.

    I'm not a RG fan. I much prefer the white metals, especially for travel. But I believe in the virtue and elegance of understatement, unlike some.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
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