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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    I'll PM you the link where I got these pics.

    Lot of Panerai fans excited because they were going to pay around $8k for this:


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]





    Though solid caseback, should've at least expected a movement similar to the 418 (pictured here):

    [​IMG]



    Someone opened the case and SURPRISE!

    [​IMG]


    Firestorm followed with good reason. Sure it's old news, and Panerai I think has been trying to dig themselves (and bury) out of that misery for some time. And though I love my 312, I can't say I have the same love anymore for the brand. I hope to one day again. But rising prices, along with slaps in the face of its loyal customers like this - just sad.
     
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  2. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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  3. MSchott

    MSchott Active Member

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    I've fought this opinion for years on other watch forums. All of the luxury watch brands are foremost in business to make money and they do it based on obsolete technology which is sometimes at the peak of this technology. I like independent brands as well but the best are phenomenally pricey even for basic 3 hand watches. Their owners are not suffering for their craft, that's for certain. IWC in this case is building a very high end in-house movement which in this case is functionally finished. And they are building these for the 1%. It's a luxury item for the wealthy and in that industry margins are high.
     
  4. tifosi

    tifosi Senior member

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    I agree with Roger. But maybe we are getting "Finishing" and "Decoration" confused here?
     
  5. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    @rnguy001 - thanks. And YIKES!

    Perfect pictorial illustration of the point I was making.
     
  6. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Fair enough. But I'm not talking about the high-end exotics such as Kari Voutilainen and Roger Smith. I just feel better buying or supporting independently-owned established manufactures such as...

    Nomos
    Rolex
    Audemars Piguet
    Patek Philippe
    Seiko
    Breitling
    Chopard

    ...as well as several other independents — interesting outliers such as Ochs & Junior and the low-profile Germans such as Sinn, Stowa and Laco come to mind — than I do with the big three conglomerates, who I find less likeable and too influenced by marketeers.

    I can't help thinking that a maker is selling out and a minor sense of loss when one of the megas acquires it. Same deal with beer companies.

    :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
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  7. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    The IWC movement is not even close to that Panerai fiasco. No comparison.
     
  8. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    The principle of cheaping out on the finish work is the same, though. Why they would put a lower-grade version of a movement in a more expensive watch that's available only to their self-professed collectors is difficult to grasp. I'd expect the finishing standard in the costlier version to be the same or better than the mass-market version (which is quite good), but perhaps they're being Machiavellian and testing out just how much of that "pricing power" they can get away with. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
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  9. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    I dont think there is any principle issue here, and I really doubt there is any conspiracy theory here either. I also think there is really little point in debating/bantering further on the matter.

    As is see it there are 3 ways to look at this.


    1. Who cares, the back is closed and you never the damn thing, so whats the issue at all. Everybody shut up already.

    2. Its kind of weak, and they should have put more into it, but its not a huge deal, and it might not deter a purchase if there were enough appealing aspects to the watch.

    3. Its unacceptable and a watch at that price point must have better finishing, without it its laughable, and almost highway robbery. Not only would I not kop, I reserve disdain and distrust for the brand as a whole now.


    Being that there is no functional issue with the movement, rather its a question of aesthetics/levels of luxury, I dont think there is a right or wrong here. Brands make watches, there are many aspects to a watch, and inevitably there will be a variety of reactions to the finished product by the potential customers/enthusiasts/hobbyists. Those who dont care might kop and those who do care wont, but as far as any principle of the matter, or ideology, there is no right or wrong here, only a differing of personal preferences.
     
  10. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Quote:Yes. A difference in degree as between these two examples, not a difference in kind. I wonder how many would endorse the Panerai approach knowing that the movement can't be seen and accepting for the sake of argument that its functionality is not diminished? Should you not just flat out simply expect more for your (not inconsiderable) money? I guess if you're just all about the brand, then the merits of the actual product are secondary at best. After all, it still says "Panerai" and is shiny on the outside....
     
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  11. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    Agree, Stitchy



    Strangely, I agree too, Belli.

     
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  12. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Yes, although I'm clearly relishing the discussion, it's likely that this particular tangent is getting a bit played-out. My position is that putting in an inferior version of a movement in a more expensive model is indefensible. It doesn't seem like too much to ask to get the standard-grade bits inside:

    [​IMG]

    Look, nobody's buying a $12K-on-a-strap chronograph strictly on the basis of function. Yes, it has to be there, but if it was only about functionality, we'd all be wearing G-Shocks (which are A-OK, by the way). In that price range, it's most definitely about having something special on the wrist.

    I don't see it as an objectively right-and-wrong thing; there's an emotional element to non-essential purchases such as luxury watches, and this example simply doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about the company. It's fine if someone doesn't mind that their five-figure Flieger has an unfinished movement, though — this watch thing isn't exactly what I'd call rationally justifiable.



    The conspiracy-theory thing is meant in jest, obviously. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  13. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    ^^^ Well said. I'll leave it at that.
     
  14. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Ya'll still arguing about IWC? :lol:


    Anyways, got a Polachecks magazine and they had this Panerai 1940 Platino in ivory dial and it has probably jumped to my favorite Pams ever.
    [​IMG]




    There was also an ad on the back for the Patek 5170G and damn it's a beauty, screw the 5711! :slayer:
    I'm just a slave to marketing. :embar:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    And look, it comes with a movement worth 5 figures so it gets the TWAT seal of approval? :D
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Cool watch; I'd definitely wear that. One of my favourite/most-respected companies is Nomos, and they're known for their Bauhaus-influenced minimalism.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  16. paulch

    paulch New Member

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    Oh yeah, Nomos is amazing. Quite pricey though...
     
  17. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    In this case the true die-hards - the Ristis were the most inflamed by this. Even lifelong fans have a tipping point were the most vocal in their outrage, and I think (hope) Panerai learned a big lesson from that.
     
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  18. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    That dual register Panerai chrono is gorgeous.
     
  19. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    True, but they're one of those rare watch companies where I feel that you really get what you pay for. When you consider the work goes into them and how little true competition they have, it's remarkable that you can get the basic but sublime Club model for the cost of a few pairs of high-grade shoes — quality shoes being another luxury good where I think you get can get your money's worth if you know where to look.

    Be warned; the watch thing can be quite hazardous to one's financial health. However, I can't think of a single other wearable item that you can use and enjoy daily for years or even decades, and still have it retain its value. To me, that's a big part of their appeal, and why I feel more comfortable spending $X on a quality wristwatch than any other non-essential item.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  20. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    RFX, both those are superb, but especially the PAM.

    Belli, the funny thing about all this is that I am a huge whore for pretty movement, at any price point, and that IWC movement you posted a few pics ago is v nice, and I do wish that was in the other watch we were discussing. I wish it so hard.

    But at the same time, I think that my anger over it not being there is not at all what you are feeling. Its just does not bother me on principle, and Im not buying the watch either way.

    I also dont have the general dislike you have for the conglomerates, and I have minimal love for Independents. I find a most of the indi watches to simply be ugly, and I like the backing of a big company for service and knowing that they are not going to disappear soon.

    Long story short, I respect your opinion and very much understand where you are coming from, but dont feel as strongly as you do on the topic. Horses for courses I guess, and the discourse has been lots of fun. :)
     
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