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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. tifosi

    tifosi Senior member

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    I pulled a "Beckwith" on @no frills Instagram post the other day and got everyone all upset. LOL
     
  2. TC (Houston)

    TC (Houston) Senior member

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    LOL yeah I'm sure they did!
     
  3. Wes Bourne

    Wes Bourne Senior member

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    @Dino944 : Do you think something like the Peter Roberts Grand Complication 5 will appreciate much?

    http://www.peterrobertswatches.com/
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  4. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    Thanks for the conf on the Rolex gold, gents.
     
  5. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Franck Muller was/is a very talented watch maker. I don't think everything that has his name on it, necessarily reflects that. I think his more complicated pieces may have more technical merit and went well beyond merely putting mass market movements in stylish cases. The brand's less expensive pieces I think reflected that they were the brand's entry level watches.

    If anything, I read an interesting article by a well known VC enthusiast and watch collector who credited FM with the drastic rise in prices that we have seen with watches during the last 15+ years. If one looked at pricing for watches 15-20 years ago it remained relatively stable and you could purchase a nice 18Kt gold dress watch from Patek, AP, VC for say $6,000-$9,500 before a discount. What they all noticed was the FM was doing quite well selling his all steel watches for about the price of their gold watches. Then all of the sudden pricing on basic Pateks went into the low teens, then high teens, then low twenties and so on. The same happened with other companies be it AP, VC, Piaget, JLC, etc. It wasn't inflation, or cost of materials, although those had gone up somewhat. It was that upon seeing what FM was selling they believed (and maybe correctly since no one balked) that they had been under pricing their watches for years.

    While I do not possess a crystal ball to tell the future, I don't think the Peter Roberts Grand Complication 5 will appreciate much. If a person wants to buy from a small outfit and have a watch that they believe the owner/watch maker of the company may have strong involvement in the production of their personal watch, I get that. However, even if he is great watch maker and person in the world of watches, independents tend to have a very limited market and therefore a very limited chance to appreciate in value. Look at auction results and they tend to be very strong for some of the very established brand names like Patek, AP, VC and Rolex...but once you get away from those brands...you just don't seem to see the big numbers that you see with those brands even when looking at pieces from other well known brand names.

    I would also say that the Grand Complication 5, is far from a design that I think people would consider universally beautiful or classic looking. So I think that would hurt its chances also. I personally find it rather unattractive...but even if it were a great looking watch, watches of lesser known brands rarely appreciate significantly.

    I like some of the work from independents. Some make spectacular watches. However, if you wanted to sell or trade them either now or in the future, I think you would either have trouble finding buyers and/or you might have to take a big loss. So buy from the independents if you love what they are making, and if you are not someone that would be concerned about resale value. If in 20+ years that changes and everyone wants watches from independents and they have appreciated, it will be a nice bonus. However, if things stay as they are you will still have a watch you really like and you won't be disappointed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
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  6. Dachshund

    Dachshund Senior member

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    Thanks, most interesting, as always.
     
  7. Wes Bourne

    Wes Bourne Senior member

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    Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Dino.

    Also, ceci n'est PAS UNE ROLEX:

    [​IMG]

    And I believe it's been a while (NSFW):
    [​IMG]

    ^ NOT FAKE!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
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  8. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Senior member

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  9. sl876

    sl876 Member

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    [​IMG]

    ventura sparc watch
     
  10. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

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    Not a Rolex.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    You're welcome. BTW nice photos!
    I haven't seen one of those in years. Hope you are enjoying it.
    Great watch! IMHO, one of the nicest and easiest to use multi-timezone watches.
     
  12. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

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    Another not a Rolex.
    Repossessed from wife who had "borrowed" it quite some time ago.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Wes Bourne

    Wes Bourne Senior member

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    Just to backtrack a bit re refinishing: general consensus is that watches shouldn't be refinished much, if at all, for resale value and natural patina/wear, etc (esp. sport watches). But I'm curious if much stainless steel has to me removed and is lost if it's only light refinishing, i.e. to remove superficial hairlines that can only be seen and not really felt.
     
  14. Keith T

    Keith T Senior member

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    Size looks really good IMO and that's a great Heuer. Also quoting Wes for the inspired choice of a blue strap on this piece :slayer:
    As others have recommended, it's probably best not to compromise on these things. I'm not sure the Sub is "worth" twice the monetary value of the Pelagos, but I suspect your personal enjoyment of owning and wearing the Sub might be doubled, if that makes any sense. Not to throw logic or critical thinking out the window in this hobby obsession, but I have often been happier with the watch selections that I made more with my heart, rather than my head.
    Nice intro anderz! Love the Zenith. Other lurkers (you know who you are): why not go ahead and enter the fray? We don't bite (hard). You have nothing to lose but your TWAT cherries!
    +1 excellent pics, Wes. I think Newcomer really likes at least one of those LOL. To answer your question re: stainless, I would typically try to avoid any refinishing just as a matter of policy, for the reasons you stated. I like a little bit of love to show, whether it's a sport watch or not. But I would think that a light/superficial touch-up would remove very little steel and would not dramatically affect value. You see this all the time for instance on VRF, or from respected dealers like Jacek and others, where they just indicate "the case has been refinished, but showing signs of wear" or something along those lines. But again, there are many collectors who want NO polishing whatsoever, just something as close to untouched as possible. And also, my Khaki says hi to yours (old pic)... [​IMG]
     
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  15. Wes Bourne

    Wes Bourne Senior member

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    ^ Yay Khakis!

    Yours looks bigger than my 38mm. I like your painted hands better, but I prefer the shape of sub-dial hands on mine.

    Very pleased with this purchase so far. Imo, these are the nicest Khaki chrono dials: flat dial with recessed sub-dials. Much nicer than the newer ones where the dial is sorta raised (stepped?) in the middle and glossy. To nitpick: lumed numerals would've been nice, as well as a screw-down crown. Still, a great value for a 7750 chrono with a clean design reminiscent of the IWC 3706 fliegerchrono and Sinn 356.

    This is my first 7750 watch and I noticed the minute hand lags behind the seconds. Apparently the 7750 is known for that. Nurd buddy told me it's gear lag and suggested I set the minute hand forward a bit when the seconds are hacked at 12 before pushing the crown back in. Fiddled with it a bit and setting the minute hand 1/3 minute ahead got rid of the lag.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  16. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    Could not agree more.
     
  17. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    Kate Upton what? :slayer:
     
  18. Wes Bourne

    Wes Bourne Senior member

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    3 thumbs up, as they say.
     
  19. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Don't be vulgar.
     
  20. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    OK, I have a bit of catching up to do in this thread, so here goes. The number of posts each day seems to be increasing dramatically since the thread started (though not necessarily the amount of actual content), so regrets if I've missed anyone.


    My previous Steven Seagal sugar-drink comparison wasn't entirely spot-on for the "DEEPSEA" colour, but it conveys my opinion of the watch closely enough, and I stand by my initial reaction. I'm not the biggest fan of the 116660 model in the first place, but it's still very disappointing to see Rolex putting a novelty dial on a stainless professional model. The fade-to-black thing isn't too high on the gimmickry scale compared to some of the joke watches out there, but the conglomerate-owned brands and the novelty-watch assemblers set the bar quite low. This sort of thing harms Rolex's design integrity, in my opinion.


    Dino summed things up nicely, and I agree entirely with his assessment:


    I also favour chronographs, so I might be a bit biased. But here's my take on the two models.

    Despite the Daytona being the default choice for many — not only worn by some of the least-discerning, but also a consistent favourite among watchmakers and serious collectors — it's difficult to beat the overall package that it offers. The versatility and wearability is fantastic, and the design is all chronograph. I have no hesitation about taking mine in water, and do so regularly. There's absolutely no need for the additional pressure resistance a diving-specific model unless you're planning on welding things on the bottom of the North Sea... and that's mostly done by robots these days. A watch with a higher pressure rating won't keep out any more water than a lower-rated one as long as stay with the limit. 100 m is deeper than anyone who's not getting paid a justifiably high day rate to live inside a tiny underwater prison for weeks at a time goes.

    [​IMG]

    There just aren't many chronographs, if any, that offer its combination of slimness, movement quality, water resistance, and versatility. The 4130 is both refined and reliable, and though it's a sports movement that isn't about elaborate decoration, it is flawlessly and precisely finished. It's certainly not the rarest or fanciest chronograph available, but it's very solid watch for actually wearing if you like the style.


    The chunkier Sea-Dweller is a bit more of a niche watch due to its thickness, but it's essentially a Submariner, which is the other default choice. Even more so than the Daytona, almost anyone with a passing interest in watches has heard of the Submariner, but it's remained in high regard among those who know their stuff ever since its introduction over sixty years ago. I think that the current Submariner is among the best divers' watches available, but prefer the satin dial, slimmer lugs, and raised crystal of the Sea-Dweller.

    The raised crystal on the 116600 gives it a distinctive profile compared to the 116610:

    [​IMG]

    Many companies make larger fashion divers, but it's substantial watch by reasonable standards, and the density is noticeable. I'm glad that Rolex resisted the temptation to ruin it by bloating the case and turning it into another oversized fashion fashion watch. The 39 mm Explorer, the 42 mm Explorer II, and the "II' versions of the Datejust and the Day-Date are more than enough.

    Despite their obvious differences, there are some fundamental similarities between the Daytona and the Sea-Dweller. I'm sure that many people buy either one strictly as jewelry, but in essence, they're meant to be durable, functional watches. I'd consider either to be uncompromised; even if they're not always worn as such, the Daytona is a pure chronograph, and the Sea-Dweller is a pure diver's watch. They both have a raised and beveled crystal, which gives them a resemblance to the classic acrylic models that no other current sports Rolex has. I would consider either to be a no-excuses watch .

    Here they are side-by-side. I wouldn't say that one is better than the other; it's strictly a question of personal preference.

    [​IMG]


    Fine, but if I had to pick one?

    I'd lean toward the Daytona as well, just because I'm irrationally attracted to chronographs, and because the 4130 movement is unique to the model. Also, I use the choronograph function regularly, plus the subtle "click" and tactile response from cycling through stop/start/reset is just sweet. (I'm nerdy like that.) But find that I wear the less-shiny Sea-Dweller more often. Although either could serve as an only watch, I prefer them as a secondary alternative to something more subdued. An older Zenith-movement Daytona with brushed lugs and an all-brushed bracelet would be more of an everyday wearer for me.

    I've found that either can be a bit over-the-top at times. (Mind you, my taste in watches is exceptionally curmudgeonly and I tend to think that everything new sucks.) If I had to choose only one watch among my current ones it would be the plexi GMT, as it's less blingy than the Daytona, less bulky than the Sea-Dweller, and can be reasonably understated with a faded black insert.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    That said, I have no regrets about either. Just pick whichever one suits you best.



    Thanks, it's now in Oslo with an appreciative owner who's a proper watch guy. It's a quality watch, it's but it just wasn't really my style. As soon as the Girard Perregaux central-minutes chrono arrived, I picked it over the Reverso every single time. I'm much happier that someone is getting some wear out of that JLC instead of having it languishing in some box. Getting rid of stuff you don't use kicks ass.


    I like normal-sized original designs in stainless steel, and although I have nothing against outsourced movements if they're suitable for the watch (whether it's an ETA in a basic watch, or a beautifully-decorated JLC movement in a Royal Oak), I don't like when companies misrepresent their watchmaking abilities or obfuscate their movements' origins. I also like my watches to have a specific niche without too much overlap, so I found the GP and JLC to be redundant, despite one being an automatic chronograph and the other being an 8-day hand-wound GMT. No point in having a watch that doesn't get used, especially when it's a complicated one from a Richemont company.

    For some perspective on what I actually wear, here's a photo of a few I had sitting around recently; it's incomplete (the new Sea-Dweller, a couple of GMTs, and other watches are missing) but it should give you an idea of what I like. The Speedmaster is a friend's; I temporarily swapped for a GMT II. It's easily my favourite current Omega and I would gladly have one, but having three chronographs is enough of a maintenance obligation for now.

    [​IMG]

    To be honest, I could part with any of them except the plexi GMT and the GP; those two are a bit special to me, and more than enough for any realistic situation. For sentimental reasons, the Sinn chrono will always stick around — plus it's just really good at being a stress-free wristwatch without any bullshit. I like the others fine, but when it comes down to it, they're replaceable and/or forgettable.

    Having more than two or three decent watches probably isn't a good idea for normal people, anyway. Really, a single well-chosen watch that complements the wearer's style is more than enough.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
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