The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Dino944]

^^ I remember years ago reading about a guy on the rolex forum that sent his vintage 5513 in for a service...had a gorgeous patina'd dial...when he got it back, it had a brand new dial. Man, i honestly think id kill someone for ******* up my watch like that.

Sounds like justifiable homicide. I heard about that happening ...man, I'd just have get you and a few of my other watch buddies on the jury!

good points as always, dino. the only thing that i dont fully agree on is the back. the smaller movement does not really bother me all that much, and with a pretty movement as this watch had, i would opt to be able to see it, even though it is clearly smaller than the case size should dictate.

but what i really want to focus on is the bold, because it hits on something i was wondering today.

...if you did that, do you think you would have the same watches in your stable, or do you think you would have something else?

im not saying that this would prove we make bad decisions or are untrue to ourselves. quite the opposite, i think the way we look at watches here in the TWAT is great, and id never want it any other way. its a different type of vantage point with different objectives and desires, and its just as fair and sensible as the less concerned/informed buyer. there is no wrong answer or wrong way to make ones personal purchase decisions. i just wonder if our decisions would be the same if we took some of our more nuanced bullet points of our lists.

ill try and answer this for myself later, but i need to mull it over more to give an intellectually honest answer.

A large case with older small movement always bothers me, but that just means there are fewer pieces you and I have to get into steel cage match to see who gets it

To be honest, I don't think my collection would really change much or at all taking whether I took resale value into account or not. Yes, its a good feeling to know that your watch has retained a large percentage of its purchase price. It may also make Mrs. Dino feel better about my having a watch collection. Still, I bought what I liked, and many of the factors involved in the purchase were history of a brand or design, quality, versatility, and whether such a piece would add something interesting to my collection. For example, I bought Rolex watches because of their quality, design, history, movement, versatility for my lifestyle, and price. Something like Panerai has great resale value, and many of the same attributes I've mentioned for Rolex. However, in many of their "Lower priced" watches the Unitas & ETA movements bothered me. Its a great watch and I don't say that about the movement to disparage the brand, but merely because one of my favorite SA's used to always try to get me to consider one saying they are as rugged as a Rolex, different styling and great resale value. A design or brand either works for me or it doesn't.

In addition, Patek makes a great watch, it has better resale value than most comparable VCs. Yet, I just wasn't interested in the Calatrava (which was in my budget years ago). I really preferred the designs of my Historiques Carree and my 1972 (Asymmetric). The Calatrava is legendary and a great watch, but I just wanted something completely different from what were my daily wearers, which were round, so I chose non-round watches. Maybe someone with more sense would have bought 2 Calatravas and maybe they would be worth more than my VCs, but I really like my VCs. I made my purchase knowing that a PP would probably retain more of its original purchase price, but I was just so enamored with the VC designs which I found to be a bit more lively and younger looking (to me) that I went for the VCs.

I don't think there is anything wrong with considering resale value as part of a purchase. No one wants to spend good money to hear that their high end watch is worth the same as a casio/timex etc. I think when I was younger and maybe would need to trade 1 watch to get the next it might have made more of a difference to me, but it was not one of the main factors in my choice of watches. I just think the resale value should can be a collateral factor to consider but it should not be the major factor in deciding which watch to buy. People and trends are fickle. Pateks weren't always fetching what they do today, and maybe years from now it will change and some other brand will be the perceived top dog. If you buy what you like, no matter what happens with the value you will be happy because its a watch you chose for your self and have enjoyed. Its just some icing on the cake if it maintains or accrues in value.

All this (extremely thought-provoking) discussion around resale value prompted me to seek some advice from my fellow TWAT experts - I have been considering the following limited edition VC Overseas Chronograph (being first generation Greek in the U.S. it really speaks to me):

http://blog.perpetuelle.com/watches/vacheron-constantin-overseas-chronograph-for-greece/

Retail on the watch was close to 15K euros - what do you folks think might be reasonable on the secondary market for a NIB with all papers, plastics on, and open warranty card?

Not really sure how the VC Overseas Chronograph does on the secondary market, so would love any insight.

As always, thanks in advance.

I think the biggest factor in price will be availability. I've seen limited editions, that although limited were quite easy to obtain, even a year or two out of production. While it may not be the most accurate way to gauge price on the "Greek Edition" is to look for auction results of other limited edition Overseas they have made in recent years. They have made limited editions, that are basically the same color watch with a different color dial, several times now (maybe VC is following AP's lead with all the Offshore Chronograph limited editions).

I like VC, I own 2 of them, but I can't say the current Overseas line has been one of my favorite designs from them. I did try a few on, and it I didn't like how it sat on my wrist. Also, while I understand the purpose of the varying sizes of subdials, they bother me. You definitely need to try one on in person, even a standard model and see how you feel about it.

Something to be careful about is sometimes watches made for a certain market, can have a limited appeal to collectors. It may have great appeal in Greece, but I do not know if it will the same appeal outside of Greece, unless there is something different other than dial color. For instance, if it were the only Overseas offered in Platinum...well that would add some significance to the model beyond it being for the Greek market. That's not to say only Greek people would find the color scheme attractive, they may (I like blue dials and I'm not Greek). However, whether a Japanese or South American collector would have an interest in the Greek Overseas, I am not sure. I think you just need to be careful that you don't get oversold regarding price, because someone is playing the "Its a limited edition card." Just playing devils advocate.

Is it just me, or is this guy leaning in?



Can't tell what (else) he's wearing. Gold Day-Date?

Can you blame him? Yes, Arnold is well known for wearing a gold Day-Date (there are numerous ads showing him and Jack wearing Day-Dates).

I've just had some mixed experiences when putting things I like in principle from pictures and specifications, on my wrist for the first time. Some were outstanding, some were disappointing. Some I'd never have thought of, spoke to me in a way I never expected. Have you ever seen one of these and put it on? Or if not, perhaps put on another VC Overseas chrono to at least see how the weight, style and shape sit with you - especially if you can find one with a similarly made strap. I'd recommend it most highly.

+1

Definitely try on an Overseas before pulling the trigger. Although, I realize part of the appeal is its for the Greek market, I've always preferred the previous model of Overseas (but there is no Greek market version of that watch).

 

[DerekS]

^^not a fan of the RO chrono, but the RO is ******* gorgeous. still want one of those.


the kind of thing that Derek S would buy if he won the lottery, and wear to the beach with mink-lined budgie-smugglers and a tiara.

oh and **** you.

 

[DerekS]

also...to answer the question stitch asked earlier....I make most of my watch purchases based on knowing i wont lose ****** when i resell or trade. Im never gonna be a 1 watch guy...and i probably will continue to flip them for the rest of my life. For instance...as much as i love that GP you posted, id never buy it. unless i was able to get it for a disgusting price. Like 2K or under. but at the MSRP? not a chance. Id rather get the similar VC Patrimony and know that it will hold its value in the event i get bored and want a new watch. (i will)

 

[mimo]

(Stitch, you're right, it just didn't sit right on me - anyway Derek likes it, so what to do?)





Now this really piqued my curiosity. I know very little about this maker, and this is the only boutique in the Middle East, recently opened. Again, I had to tell the (desperately bored) sales assistant that I'd just come in out of curiosity. But we had a very pleasant chat. What I ended up trying was the cheapest thing in the room. But it was the only one I could imagine wearing. Given the price, I'll be imagining for quite a long time. Recognise it?




Yeah, well as the name's on the top, I supposed you will! I love that lethal-looking rotor! I'm not a huge fan of skeletons in general, but this is a real work of art. The front isn't bad either.




According to the salesman, this case is unique in that it's made from three separate pieces of titanium i.e. not machined from a single piece. It certainly makes it very light - wears like a Casio! It also gives it very strong, mechanical-looking angles all around. It's not especially useful I suppose, but if you were a real big shot collector, it's certainly cool. This is the model 10, and of all of them, the most wearable I could see (for my taste). It also has a successor, which I think is the 29 if I remember correctly....oh yeah, it's written on the dial. Here they are, side by side.




Honestly, I think the old one is nicer. The day counter on the new one is too bright. But I suppose these things don't set out to be subtle! Anyway, something new seen up close. Not many people try on a Richard Mille. Now I have, and it was fun.

 

[DerekS]

^^RM really makes some incredible watches....id never wear one though...too futuristic looking to me.... but theyre surprisingly light arent they?

 

[Dino944]

Thanks largely to Dino's most eloquent and informative evangelism, I had to see a Royal Oak in person. My local AD has a couple of APs, but the only ROs are either ladies', or freakish Offshore models - the kind of thing that Derek S would buy if he won the lottery, and wear to the beach with mink-lined budgie-smugglers and a tiara.

But in pictures at least, the one that I like most is the RO chronograph. I like the standard one too, but the simple date (sorry, "day counter"!) irritates. In the chrono, it is neatly pushed into the background by the subdials and location. So, simple question: do you have a steel RO, please sir? And they did. Two.

So this is it. I like the white dial because it really shows up the "tapisserie" and makes the subdials stand out nicely. Also, everything Dino said about the quality of this thing is serious. The first thing I noticed was that the edge of every link in the bracelet felt sharp and neat against my hand when I picked it up. The case, obscured here slightly by the plastic cover, is just perfect. It's an extraordinary piece of manufacturing.

There's a problem, though. It's big. This is the current standard RO, and at 41mm, it's not what I wanted it to be. What I love about the RO, like the Nautilus or Daytona, is that it works as a sporty, distinctive dress watch. You can wear it with a polo and jeans or a suit for a meeting just as easily. Except now you can't because it's too big. It doesn't slide under the sleeve easily, and with the shiny multiplier effect of the integrated bracelet it shouts pretty loud from your wrist. That's what the ROO does, and why I don't like them. Disappointment. BUT there's a smaller one. The "unisex" 37mm model. Not in the chrono, but same case to try and here it is:




Now, I wear a 35mm dress watch quite a lot, so I'm used to smaller watches. And this 37mm RO was once upon a time the standard, I think. It's pretty good. Almost. Because somehow, maybe it's just the size inflation in modern watches, but it's not big enough. Now it's subtle under the sleeve, it feels nice enough. But it's somehow lost its manly sportiness. What I'm asking myself is whether I want the one that no longer exists: the single size of yesteryear, the 39mm they don't make any more.

They do make it in gold, though. So I tried the one they had, on a strap, but I think the point is made:




That's the size! Apart from the strap's being too tight, it was perfect. Also, I might be swaying to the blue dial having seen this. It's pleasingly warm and loses none of the texture. I'm told it's the colour of the original RO too. So this, in steel, on a bracelet? Now only available used? But for about $12k. That's cheaper than a new Daytona. Actually, it's about the same as a nearly-new Daytona. I have learned something new here. I know the size that looks and feels right, and it's not what I expected. And I know that I no longer automatically want a Daytona if and when I look for a watch in this category - and there's a choice for the same price.

(Travel safe, Nuke!)

Mimo, AP still makes a 39mm RO, its the ultra-thin 15202 Jumbo. Its production is far more limited than that of the 41mm 15400 and from what I have heard, you rarely see them at AD's. AP is sending most of their Jumbo production to the AP boutiques. In addition, I prefer the dial of the Jumbo as it has the smaller original size Clous de Paris. Its size allows it to straddle that fine line of being able to look great with jeans but elegant enough for a suit and tie. I find the 15400 is now a bit more sports watch oriented (although it still will work with a suit), and looks a tad less dressy in the new size, unless you are built like a line backer in the NFL. Also, if one is choosing a blue dial, its important to note that the RO Jumbo 15202, the RO 15400, and RO Chronograph all use a different shade of blue for their dials.

I like the RO Chronograph, its a great sports watch. It shares the same base movement as the Overseas (F.Piget 1185), but I prefer it to the Overseas Chrono. I find it a bit more understated, especially when both are on bracelets. The current Overseas bracelet is a bit too blingy for my taste with the Maltese Cross shape flowing through the bracelet design.

In the end the fit and finish are simply superb no matter which model one is viewing. I've said it before but its worth repeating, IMHO its a watch where you can really see why it costs what it does.

 

[mimo]

^^ Thanks, Dino!

^^RM really makes some incredible watches....id never wear one though...too futuristic looking to me.... but theyre surprisingly light arent they?

Not on your wallet...

Oh, and I forgot to mention: despite its ground-breaking case construction and sporty demeanour, it's water resistant to 30m. So don't drop it in your mimosa.

 

[Flake]

Passed on an RM 10 years ago and do occasionally regret it. Was a great deal at the time and I rather like the RM design. One of only two times I regret taking a pass on a watch.

 

[DerekS]



Passed on an RM 10 years ago and do occasionally regret it. Was a great deal at the time and I rather like the RM design. One of only two times I regret taking a pass on a watch.

damn. Hate to hear that.....especially with what theyre going for now....

 

[Flake]



damn. Hate to hear that.....especially with what theyre going for now....

Yeah.
The other was similar. A killer deal on a Datograph. Both were local deals from collectors I knew well. I kick myself way more on the Datograph...

 

[mimo]

^^Argh! More of that later...

 

[DerekS]



Yeah.
The other was similar. A killer deal on a Datograph. Both were local deals from collectors I knew well. I kick myself way more on the Datograph...

OHHHHHH DAMN. one day....one day i'll have to share a story on a datograph that was available to me. VERY strange/awkward/hilarious story.

 

[in stitches]



^^RM really makes some incredible watches....id never wear one though...too futuristic looking to me.... but theyre surprisingly light arent they?

this. and thanks for your reply to my question.
--

dino - great post, i enjoyed reading that and i hope to do a run down of my watches like that.

i agree 100% that considering resale is a very fine thing when making a purchase, i know i do. much in part because of what derek says, that if i want to flip/sell to buy something else, i want to be moving up, not down, and i really dont want to take a bath. did that once and it was not pleasant. and strong resale helps me in that way. but i think many people dont care, and i think thats fine too, assuming they dont need to care.

 

[mimo]

Got me thinking about favourite makers. That's Dino's favourite done, and his other favourite Vacheron Constantin I didn't get to as it's elsewhere. I did go to Frilly's favourite Patek Philippe, but didn't do anything. They didn't have a Nautilus, that I wanted to see in person and compare to the RO. And there was literally nothing there that I would want. Not because it wasn't nice, but because their selection was composed mostly of gold, and their only platinum piece I didn't like (a particular Gondolo). What's more, all the good stuff is only what Frilly shows us on his wrist every week. So I didn't bother. Oh. I did laugh at the salesman for having a "Guess" fashion watch. He took it in good heart.

So, onto a real TWAT favourite, and following on from what Nuke said this evening:



There are some JLCs I like the look of. The Master Home Time, the Master Reserve, the Geographic (especially the platinum one with the flip cover on the case back), and several more. Maybe the most obvious would be the MUT Moon, which is beautiful in person, but the simple date annoys me. Also the Grand Ultra Thin. But the latter was a disappointment to me: perhaps if it had something going on on that huge dial in terms of texture. Perhaps if the hands were blued or the hour markers were interesting (they look a tiny bit like a Seamaster's, but flat). Perhaps a lot of things, but in the flesh, I didn't love it. It needs more personality, and as Nuke said, some JLCs are just boring. What I've found is that there are a lot I like, but I struggle to love one. Make the GUT a mm or two smaller, blue just the hand on the seconds subdial...give the dial some tone or texture. And I'll love it, maybe.

There are two that I find very lovable. The Duometre, which is usually gold and I didn't take a closer look. And the Reverso. With the Reverso, I have an issue though: I like the quintessential solid caseback for its original purpose, of protecting the watch when turned. It's also a nice idea to engrave for a family heirloom or similar. But in general, it's a dress watch, which means I'm generally liking stick markers, and a bit of interest on the dial. Enter the Grande Taille or "big size". Lovely guilloche, traditional style, small seconds that I love, and blued hands. Perfect. Except that the "big size" isn't, really. Bigger than the original, bigger than the girls' one. But smaller than the others. I put it on, and it just wasn't right. I was so disappointed I didn't even take a pic. Stitchy mentioned this before. As we're about the same size, I should have listened to him: I just figured as a Squadra and Panerai owner he liked big watches. But Stitchy spoke truth: the "Grande Taille" is a little modest.

But there are dozens of Reversos, and two that I like. Basically, we're into the 1931:



I absolutely loved the way this sat against my wrist. OK, the Arabic numbers wouldn't have been my choice, but given the style they actually look pretty good. The blued hands and guilloche are lovely. I really, really liked this watch when I didn't expect to. I kind of expected then to like its slender and evil twin, and I did:




Isn't that lovely? They're pretty hard to choose between. There's also the Rouge, although I didn't bother with that. I know it would lose out to the others in a head to head for wearability, and I have another red-dialed plan at some point anyway. So it's between the neat, clean, stick markers and slimness on the cool black dial. And the rich guilloche, blued hands and satisfying wrist presence of its sister. Maybe one of each for day and night? After all, should they really be separated?




And talking of day and night, a couple of other sisters came to visit....



Not that either of those are for me. It has to be the solid caseback I think, unless it's something really unusual. But I've learned a good lesson from having these in hand: the one I wanted, isn't the one I actually want. That's the 1931. Or two. I have some time to think about it...

In the mean time, a brief interlude, dedicated to "Fanboi" Stitchy:

 

[in stitches]

you sure know how to get me hot and bothered. love those. the black face stick markers probs being my fave.

i have seen the Duometre in action. most recently in nashville with derk and dcg. amazing watch.

and yeah, for me, the grande was tiny.