Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.
Well to Dino who seemed concerned that other people recognize the watch as being WG or not.
people would need a better photo of the dial showing
Again - incorrect. I do not know how you come up with leaps of logic like this. I regularly interact with mega-collectors whose watch collections value in the multi-millions - split seconds chronographs, minute repeaters galore: they are among the savviest of collectors and will grill any seller about the piece's service history (proof?), whether it's been polished, whether the piece's specifications match the original paperwork, or if there has been any alteration. They can absolutely afford pretty much any timepiece they want - they know the Stern family personally and interact quite regularly with chief administrators from Patek USA - but every single one of them would be concerned about potential depreciation from a faceplate switch by the factory that wouldn't match the original paperwork.
Now, this could simply be you expressing your own personal values - that's OK. But don't make errors of extrapolation and assuming that other collectors function under the same rules.
Okay - I'm going to get off the fence here and stop hiding behind "what I know of other collectors." This is me:
1. I am not just a Patek fan. I'm an owner.
2. I interact regularly with chief administrators of Patek USA. That's why I tried to share what I knew about dial change policies in previous posts.
3. I am absolutely concerned about anything that might depreciate the value of any timepiece that I purchase, including dial switches by the factory without the option of allowing me to keep the original dial.
4. I can absolutely afford every single one of the pieces I currently own. Like these beauties:
And yeah, those are my slippers.
Without speaking for Dino (without his consent) - I do not think that's the point of what he was trying to express.
beautiful PPs, Frills, and I will leave it at that.
Darn it, wurger, I disappointed you with the slippers, didn't I!
since you just posted on the GG thread, they would go well, haha.
I agree with Dino and Frills. When you're fronting that much money for a Patek you better be damned sure your timepiece is solid. Being concerned about anything possibly undermining its value is just good foresight. One of the big draws about Patek is its ability to hold its value let alone increase.
That's one way to look at it, however even though there are no guarantees there are many who tend to look at it much differently.
I wonder if I should ask Tony and Dean if they make G&G MTO slippers. HAHAHA!
Speaking of, here's a pic of me with Dean Girling and Steven Taffel of Leffot when I put in that order for the G&G Colcutt in vintage cherry / pingrain chestnut; this one was from last year.
You will note that I am wearing my SS 5711... with the lovely blue dial.
Again, if someone's personal values were such that they wouldn't even consider buying a luxury item if they couldn't write down its value to zero the next day, that's their prerogative. However, for things such as watches that do retain some (if not all of their) value, and given price points for Patek and comparable watchmakers, I dare say that most collectors would be very concerned about actions that might affect the value of the timepiece negatively. I have yet to meet the collector who, say, purchased a $5,000 platinum deployant clasp for their Patek so that they can switch out the tang buckle... and then throw the tang buckle into the trash. Chances are that (spare) tang buckle is in storage somewhere - along with the original box, papers and/or winders if any are included. Why keep the damn box? Because it's an extra $2,000 to $3,000 if your package is complete, not considering the simple difficulty of unloading a piece that doesn't have, say, original papers or an Extract from the Archive.
But again, if resale value isn't a consideration at all, that's OK too! Just don't assume that others function by the same rules and expectations.
Maybe that's why I keep the original papers and box for my red sub in my safety deposit box.
my pleasure. glad you enjoyed.
nice news, dopey!
I simply brought up the point that doing so could reduce its value. If that is not a concern that's fine, go for it. Just contact your AD or boutique and put your money where your mouth is and buy it and have them change the dial. As for idea that you can afford a watch because you don't care if you reduce its value, that's simply showing you have different values. Using your rational, we should believe that an art collector who spends $20 million on a Picasso can't truly afford it because he won't take a "Sharpie" permanent marker and customize it in his own way, but if you did that to a painting...well that means you can afford it. If you think its an impressive show of wealth that you could reduce the value of something without a care, it isn't. I guess I value originality more than you do, and that's fine.
If your statement is based on my saying "The gray dial is what distinguishes the WG model from the steel...so it loses some of its identity."
Then although you claimed to understand where I was going with that...you didn't. I live an work in an area where only Rolex watches would be noticed or recognized. If I were concerned with recognition, it would be pointless to own several of the watches that I have. However, my statement was simply based on the idea, that the dial is one of the only features that makes the WG truly different from the SS model. Yes, I know there is a slight difference and color and weight with SS, but to me its the dial that would really make it more special to me (although I prefer the blue dial, so I'd probably just get it in steel. If I were buying an older GMT Master in steel, I'd go with a Pepsi bezel over the all black bezel because its a signature item that distinguishes it from a steel Sub. There is no value difference, no real issue with someone recognizing a GMT over a Sub in terms of prestige...I would simply want a GMT to look more like a GMT than a Sub. That principle would apply to any item I purchase.
BTW, I have owned a WG watch, it was nice, but too similar to my steel version...and it never got much wrist time. I have nothing against WG watches, its just they rarely interest me. Now a platinum watch, thats a different matter...its a stealthy white metal with significant difference in weight such that one can feel it any time you put one on your wrist.
Spot on Frills
Well said Frills.
I keep all the original items that come with my watches. Personally, unless its an item from the 1960s or older, if someone doesn't have box, papers, and other original items, I often wonder how well this item has been taken care of, be it a car, a watch or anything else of value. Then again I tend to be a stickler for originality and having everything that an item came with if its an item with any reasonable value.
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