1. Styleforum Gives - Holiday Charity Auction 8: A Bespoke Coat from David Reeves

    We are very proud to present this year's edition of the Styleforum Holiday Charity Auctions, this year in support of the Ronald McDonald House Charities of Spokane (www.rmhcspokane.org). Each Auction lasts 24 hours. Please follow and bid on all the auctions.

    The 6th auction of the year is for a Bespoke Coat from David Reeves. Please bid often and generously here

    Fok and the Styleforum Team.

    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,855
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    

    Hi Frills, I'm not a Patek owner and have no experience with their service (although a friend of mine thought although friendly, they are a bit rigid). Anyway I'd be kind of surprised if Patek would change a dial on an existing watch to a dial not offered in that metal. A lot of companies will not modify a watch to have a dial that was not available for a particular version of a watch. In addition, in a recent interview with Thierry Stern, he made it clear that while they will not make custom watches from scratch, it sounded as though they may entertain a good customer requesting that they create a slightly modified watch, his example was a different dial. I don't have the article in front of me but it read as though a person could submit a request to order a particular change to a watch and they would consider it, rather than change the dial of a watch a customer already owned.

    Mr. Stern raised the issue of not wanting to get into creating one off or individual pieces, that could end up on an auction block in a very short time just because an owner knows they have the only one of a particular model.

    I would think Patek would want to charge a significant amount if they are accommodating a specific request, as it could become quite valuable as a single piece. However, you suggestion of them doing it at the time of service raises another interesting question, "what happens to the original dial?"

    Rolex USA keeps original parts, and sells new parts as part of a trade( I hear its not so strict in Europe). Rolex does this to prevent owners from selling old parts on eBay to people that cobble together fakes using some real Rolex parts. In any event, I posed the question about the original dial, because the value of any collectible watch is tied partially to the dial. A watch with original dial is always worth more than one with a "service dial"/replacement, or a redial. So if Patek keeps the original, the owner doing the dial change could be devaluing his watch. Although, if Patek doesn't like doing one offs, that result in watches going to auction after a short time and selling for more than the owner paid, a later dial change after purchased (so its not in its original form) could dissuade an owner from flipping it , because he knows its worth less since its not the original dial and didn't come from the factory that way.

    I guess the only way to know what Patek would actually do is to submit a request to Patek and wait for their response.
     


  2. no frills

    no frills Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,222
    Likes Received:
    2,109
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Location:
    NYC
    Oh yeah - I forgot to mention that it won't be something that's always accommodated and it will actually be for exceptional circumstances - like for some of their most reliable repeat customers. In the past they would actually let customers keep the original dial, believe it or not. That's why you'll still see the somewhat rare pre-owned piece with two dials because the original owner had the original dial replaced.

    If you're a reliable repeat customer with a history with the brand, and the parts are generally available, I suspect the request can be accommodated. Switching out a 3970 white dial for, say, a black dial, has to be done in Geneva - but according to Patek USA they can still certainly accommodate it. I didn't ask about the price/cost, though - although the suggestion that it was going to be sent to Geneva already implied extra time and potentially additional costs. I also know a few collectors who've had dials replaced for their 5205s recently, because the darker dial was found to be not so legible. So I think it does happen - but it may cost extra and it will certainly take more time.

    I do not know what Patek will do to the original dial at this point in time. I'd have to think that savvy owners would want it back, since that's what's written on the Certificate of Origin and it would be tough to sell a piece at a good price if the papers did not match the piece.
     


  3. kungapa

    kungapa Senior Member

    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    25
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    

    I consistently see the best prices on Nomos etc from German dealers at Chrono24, so potentially yes.
     


  4. RogerP

    RogerP Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    8,535
    Likes Received:
    6,309
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Location:
    Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
    This. I like the DJII well enough, but if I could swing the AP I would not hesitate.
     


  5. akatsuki

    akatsuki Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,656
    Likes Received:
    199
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Brooklyn, SF, Tokyo
    

    I figure it would be reasonably straightforward since it is essentially a part for part replacement. As far as resale value, I think it is a bit silly to worry about - either you can afford the watch or you can't. If I can't afford to buy a luxury good outright, I don't buy it.
     


  6. no frills

    no frills Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,222
    Likes Received:
    2,109
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Location:
    NYC
    Resale value really shouldn't be the primary criterion for buying a watch. "Buy what you like, and can reasonably afford" - you'll hear this often. However, it would be somewhat naive IMHO if you didn't consider it at all, given the price point of this luxury good and the fact that certain pieces do retain value more than others (and certain pieces can be resold for higher values depending on how you care for them).

    At the very least resale value ought to play a part in future purchases: that luxury good you want to buy in the future but can't afford? Well, it might suddenly be affordable if you traded in a watch with good resale value.

    But - as for your original question - yes, I too prefer the blue/grey dial. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013


  7. Omega Male

    Omega Male Senior Member

    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    217
    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Location:
    North Bay


  8. Dino944

    Dino944 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,855
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    
    Hmmm....sounds like some unnecessary snobbery. I don't want to speak for Frills (without his consent), but I didn't bring up resale with any reference to what you can or can't afford, and I'd be willing to guess neither did Frills.

    To suggest people who consider resale value or who trade or sell a watch, do it because they can't afford a watch is a bit silly and unfounded.

    A person might choose to sell a watch because after some time they find its not well suited for their life style, or because they have other watches and one piece isn't getting much wrist time so they decide to sell it or trade it toward something they believe they would get more use from, or because a persons taste has changed, or they don't keep watches for very long and they like to try out different pieces, or because they want to upgrade to a finer or more complicated watch and keeping the old piece would be redundant since they won't wear it. None of those reasons have anything to do with inability to afford a watch. To suggest that people who would be concerned about resale value can't afford a watch, is nonsense.

    Personally, I'm rarely moved by watches in WG, so I find the idea of buying a WG watch and paying to get the dial of a SS model a bit silly. Just buy it in steel, and use the additional funds toward something else. The gray dial is what distinguishes the WG model from the steel...so it loses some of its identity. But if it makes you happy and PP is willing to do a parts swap go for it.

    Swapping out a dial ( if Patek keeps the original dial) a not only reduces its value, but it also reduces the number of people that would even consider buying it, should you unexpectedly need money, or you tire of the watch. I would never purchase a preowned or vintage watch that does not have the original dial. I'm just 1 person, but I know other collectors who are the same way.

    If you want to devalue a product, and changing its dial makes you happy, just go for it. No need to ask us what Patek would do, just call an AD or boutique and make your request. Good luck with whatever you decide.
     


  9. RogerP

    RogerP Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    8,535
    Likes Received:
    6,309
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Location:
    Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
    +1
     


  10. bawlin

    bawlin Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,969
    Likes Received:
    811
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    

    Ahem...

    [​IMG]
     


  11. MarkI

    MarkI Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,698
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    A friend of mine found this amongst her recently deceased mothers possessions, does anyone have any idea as to what timeframe its from, value, etc? Could the diamonds be real? The numbers on the back read 622957A [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     


  12. Dino944

    Dino944 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    3,855
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    

    Yes, rarely moved by a white gold watch, and the WG Sub is not an exception to that statement. Your photo of one looks a bit better than it does in person. In person it's like a Smurf had sex with a Submariner and that's its ugly offspring. In person the blue is not as attractive, or rich looking as the dark blue that used to be used on yellow gold Subs prior to the ceramic bezel models. For what it costs, I'd simply go with an all steel Sub and still have money left for a something from Patek or AP.

    Oh, and for those that are interested in resale value...that watch is rather weak. A friend bought one when they first came out. I told him he was crazy, and just to get one in steel, or a vintage YG model ...or go with a PP or AP. Well 2 years later he tired of it, and took a bath on it. No matter how much he reduced it, no one wanted it. He finally dumped it on a preowned watch shop for a relatively small fraction of what he paid. So thanks but a WG Sub wouldn't interest me at all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013


  13. mimo

    mimo Pernicious Enabler

    Messages:
    7,552
    Likes Received:
    4,893
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    I have a most excellent and reliable 38mm Sekonda, with negligible service costs, a practical bracelet, and versatile grey/black dial that balances dress and casual most perfectly. It is just over one year old and in fine condition. After much soul-searching, I have decided that yes, I would be prepared to swap it for your IWC Portuguese and liberate you from the eternal tyranny of mechanical watch servicing costs. I will even pay the postage as a charitable act. You may PM me at leisure to make the arrangements. :)

    Next acquisition is an M5 or a Ford Taurus?

    I have tried the DJII in person. Although aesthetically classic like its predecessor, the sheer contrived bulkiness makes it an almost comical caricature of its own past. And not in a quirky, "this is how we roll", unashamed Panerai or IWC kind of way. More in a "apparently big watches are in, so just make that one bigger and charge loads more" cynical and tacky kind of way.

    Of course, AP are no strangers to bloated, fashion-chasing caricatures of the RO either. But the original remains an iconic beauty in my humble and demonstrably ignorant opinion. As does the Rolex DJ. But AP is just more special. If the two are even within shouting distance price-wise, it really should be no contest.

    Get off the fence, Dino, and say what you really think!
     


  14. akatsuki

    akatsuki Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,656
    Likes Received:
    199
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Brooklyn, SF, Tokyo
    

    If you are really worried about some potential depreciation from a faceplate switch by the factory, then you can't really afford the watch, you shouldn't be that on edge on a luxury purchase.

    I understand where you are going with this - but you may want to ask yourself are you buying the watch for yourself or for validation from other people?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013


  15. no frills

    no frills Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,222
    Likes Received:
    2,109
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Location:
    NYC
    Wait. This is your response? To me and Dino944....?

    .............................. [​IMG]
     


Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by