The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    I posted pics of it here when I bought it - but this is one seriously fast-moving thread. And now don't seem to be able to post pics from my office 'puter at all.

    Here is a link to one of the pics for you anyway: http://www.fototime.com/391C7626913DC43/orig.jpg

    $7k would be quite low. Most I have seen are in the $9k range.
     


  2. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    as well you should. :)
    --

    frilly - good stuff, thanks for sharing your adventures. :slayer:
     


  3. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    Nonetheless, an absolutely phenomenal piece for that kind of price. Mmmm I love that watch.
     


  4. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    My experiences, and those of my father have resulted in us never purchasing any watches in NYC. Actually, only my wife has a dedicated sales person in NYC, but its for jewelry.

    1. Tourneau, I consider a complete waste of time. Their sales people lack any useful knowledge, and in my experience they hover annoyingly even before you want to look at anything, as they have to fight off the other vulture like sales people that might talk to you and steal their sale. Its a very uncomfortable situation. In addition, years ago when it was known you could get discounts on any Rolex except a steel Daytona they would still spout off non-sense to try to get you to buy there...saying, "Rolex are never discounted. If you are able to get a discount on a Rolex it's either used or from a gray-market dealer." That was complete BS, but I'm sure a few suckers fell for it occasionally.

    2. My last experience at Tiffany wasn't enjoyable. So I won't buy anything from them. I went to their Patek Boutique as I was narrowing down my choices Patek Aquanaut, Nautilus, AP RO Jumbo or Chronograph, and VC Overseas Chronograph. There were two male sales associates, who had nothing to do before my wife and I got there. They had an reasonable amount of info about the watches, and seemed pleasant enough. I thought things went well. However, I guess since I was only wearing a dress shirt, jeans, and my Rolex OYSTERQUARTZ (I often wear it if I go to NYC so I can bring it to Rolex to change the battery, which Rolex does gratis), I wasn't quite good enough for them. I thanked them and took the card of the main person that helped me. I went to use the rest room which is on the same level, but around a doorway, my wife waited near the doorway and heard them critiquing me. When I came out of the rest room she told me what was happening. I went back and said, "If you guys really want to learn something about selling watches here's some advice, at least wait until the customers are gone to criticize them." They started to apologize, but I simply handed the business card back and said "I won't be needing this. I'm sure another AD for Patek, AP or VC would be happy to assist me."

    3. Wempe, I like looking in the window, but it always feels weird and like its a chore if I want to see something since half the time they need to fumble with window displays. In addition, I've always been able to get better deals from local ADs than what they could provide.

    4. I have been into Cellini a few times, but I don't like the games they play when it comes to finding out what the final price will be. This is not specific to them, I've encountered it at several NYC ADs. It goes something like this. Me: "I'm very interested in this. What is your best deal on it?" them "Well, are you going to buy this right now?" me: "Depends on the price." Them: "Well if you won't commit to buying this right now I can't give you my best price." me: "How can I tell if I should commit to this if you won't give me your best price?" While I liked the sales person there who helped me with APs and Piagets, he wouldn't tell me his best price, but asked me to promise to call him when I had shopped around. I shopped around while in another state and liked another AP AD. He gave me 1 price. No negotiating, said it was his best deal and to think on it. I called the other guy and he wanted to know the best price I got. I would not give him the other AD's price. I told him that would not be fair, he wouldn't like it if I went back to the other guy with his best price and asked him to beat it. I told him it has to be honest and fair and if he really has the best deal he has nothing to worry about. He eventually called me back with a price that wasn't as good and then started telling me that they provide better customer service than anyplace else. I said I'd think on it. I went with the other AD, genuinely a nice guy, no game playing and the item was as promised. I'm a bit crazy and if buying new, it has to be absolutely pristine, with all of the plastic still on it. He was true to his word, called me and said he wouldn't even take it out of the shipping packaging. I would be the one to cut it open, and handle it, and I was.

    So far watch purchases just don't seem like they are meant to be for me in NYC. Still, its always fun visiting the city and seeing some interesting watches.
     


  5. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    yes!
     


  6. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    dino - i want to reply to #4 in your post from a different POV, as its a very important convo imo, but im short on time. will do later. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013


  7. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I look forward to stitchy's comments - these are great discussions.
    Also - love the AT, Stitchy. It is a great watch. I think the small, no-date, black face is my favorite from that line (railmaster, I think), but they are all great watches. Someone will be very happy with it.
     


  8. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    Roger - Some of your past timepieces have me salivating - Moser ...GS... JLC Master Reveil? I think we need to see a full chronological horological resume when you get the chance please! :slayer:

     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013


  9. wurger

    wurger Senior member

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    Haha, stitchy and I both comes from sales background, can't wait for his POV. :D
     


  10. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    ill go out of order here for a minute. the AT is great. id be super tempted if i had not got my hands on the ToG. im hoping it finds a home with a loving owner, maybe even an SFer as some interest has been shown.

    ANOTHER LONG POST!!!!!

    back to dinos point #4. i do understand where he is coming from, especially since he is a serious customer. how can one really be expected to commit to a purchase without a price? and i think the rest of the story was kind of the proof being in the pudding with that fellow that he wasnt really ever going to put his money where his mouth was. in a way its not entirely dissimilar from buying a used car, some places negotiate/hold out on price until the customer starts with a number, some places just up and say this is the price, take it or leave it.

    each has its upsides and downsides. if you are going to be willing to negotiate, you have to be good at it and not come off like a sleaze-ball. if you succeed at that, it can be great for buyer and seller. if not, it can be horrible. if you are going to have a no hassle policy, you also have to have good prices and you have to stick to your guns. if you have crappy prices or if people know that you are a flip flopper on your policy, that can also be horrible.

    that being said, no seller really HAS to negotiate or not not negotiate, its a matter of a business owner deciding what way is best for his business based on his clientele/demographic/competitors... my experience as a person who has done work in both, but mostly within places that do negotiate, is as follows:

    the idea is, "you dont want to be the customers first stop, you want to be their last." meaning, often times a person comes in looking at a piece, and they are drilling you for your bottom dollar just so they can go to their friend/cousin/other place.... and say "hey, i can get this for X, you said you will beat anyone, thats the number yo have to beat." and that sucks for place number one. no one likes dropping their pants only to be glanced at and then walked out on. when you are willing to negotiate, you want someone who has done their homework and is ready to rock and roll if you can give a great deal and come to mutually agreeable terms.

    obviously no seller can expect a potential buyer to 100% agree to a purchase without a firm price. what i think the SA in that situation was trying to do, but failed miserably at was as follows. any serious buyer will know the price of the watch, and the range within he can expect a potential discount.

    the question therefore is not,

    A. "will you 100% buy this from me if i give you my best price (and lets assume you believe me that i really am giving you my best price), even though you dont know what i am going to say?" that is dumb.

    the question is

    B. "we both know you are truly interested in this piece and that you know the price range. if i give you my best possible price, are you willing to potentially make the purchase today, or at least leave a deposit to guarantee it? because if you are just pricing me out, i cant give you my best price. we can talk when you are really giving me a chance to close this deal." because the flip side of that is the customer who has no intent of buying at all, but just wants to leverage you. that is what the SA should be trying to avoid.

    and some places that do that, will even give a number that isnt really their lowest, if they feel that whatever they say the customer will ask for a better deal. and yes, i have had countless customers do that, and you can almost always tell when its coming. lets say the price is 1750, if i say 1000, even though its a ridiculous price, that id only offer to keep someone from walking, they will ask for 950, and i cant do 950. if i say 1200 they will say 1100, and we agree. and they didnt get the best deal. they screwed themselves because i could tell that i had to leave myself room or there was no way to close it. thats part of the strategy both people agree to when you negotiate that way. and the reason is, because in those situations its not about that customer saving money, they just want to feel like they beat you. whatever you say, they need to pay less, and if they do, they feel they have won. you want to play games, fine, but know that its a gamble.

    other times, i can tell the person really just wants the best deal, and ill put it out there HAPPILY. knowing that they are not just trying to win or leverage my offer for lower price, they just want a good deal, and im happy to oblige.

    and imo that is 100% fair. as a business person you need to CYA, and a reasonable customer should know that. sometimes the customer calls the bluff and the price gets lower, sometimes they agree on the price even it it isnt the absolute lowest the SA can go. but why should the SA be required to always sell at the bottom most price? it doesnt matter if you the customer really got the BEST PRICE EVAR ZOMG!!!111! what matters is that the seller and buyer are both happy and satisfied with the price. i dont care how high a sellers margins are, thats not my business. all that matters is am i happy with the price. what he gets on his end is his business not mine.

    now, a good sales person should be able to sort the liars from the pack, but there are always good liars who say that yes they are ready if the price is right, even though they are full of crap, but you know that is a potential situation when you agree to negotiate, and its your job as a sales person to do your best to assess the situation in front of you. the challenge is, being able to assess the customers level of readiness to commit if the price is right, knowing what number to put out first, and framing it in a way that you keep the customer engaged and interested without screwing yourself or the customer in the process. if you can do that, its a very beneficial way for both parties to transact. if you cant walk that line, then you wont find much success, as happened with dimo.


    YMMV, but that is my take on this type of situation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013


  11. wurger

    wurger Senior member

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    Top post from a seasoned sales, and there is nothing for me to add to!

    especially the master class question of "we both know you are truly interested in this piece and that you know the price range. if i give you my best possible price, are you willing to potentially make the purchase today, or at least leave a deposit to guarantee it? because if you are just pricing me out, i cant give you my best price. we can talk when you are really giving me a chance to close this deal."
     


  12. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    I'd probably scare the crap out of myself pndering all the money I have spent on watches over the years. [​IMG]
     


  13. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Stitchy - the way you rephrased the question in example "B" is not objectionable to me in any way. But I too have gone watch shopping in NYC a few times. Unsurpassed selection. NEVER bought anything. Because what I hear time and again is example "A". [Funny story about the last car dealer that tried to get me to put $500 on my cc as a "good faith" precondition to negotiating price, but I'm trying to stay on topic here].

    I don't get this in T.O. A dealer will tell me their best price without trying to strong-arm me to commit to an on-the-spot purchase. I may be considering a competing model that this dealer doesn't carry. I may try to effect a quick sale to help fund the purchase. I may have any number of reasons for NOT being willing to drop coin then and there, yet still be very serious in my intention to buy that watch from that dealer.

    But if I can't get a straight answer on price, that aint gonna happen.

    Admittedly most of my purchases are on the secondary market, but my shopping experience in T.O. at better ADs has consistently been good. In NYC, consistently not. And this is the reason.
     


  14. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    You know, funny enough, where I live I have received absolutely terrible service. The last couple of times I have worn my JLC when out watch shopping, and at both ADs near me the sales rep said something to the effect of "you look like you could use an upgrade, let me show you these B&Ms or Hamiltons. These are our Rolexes / IWCs / whatever, let me show you something more reasonably priced."

    By saying that, they are making so many darned assumptions it is absurd. I do not get the watch bashing. That is probably the most questionable technique I have seen. Thus, I have purchased my watches exclusively from FADs.
     


  15. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    Lots if sales people are morans. More later. :)
     


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