The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Dino944]

Strange Tourneau experience yesterday here in NYC too:

1. Tourneau on 57th street: Too much condescension and lack of attention when I walked in inquiring about a ladies Nautilus. Finally I tire of said treatment and take off my suit jacket. Had my 3970 in yellow gold on. Salesperson finally checks me out, doesn't even know what I'm wearing. Presumably his manager comes by after a minute and gushes over the 3970 and proceeds to fawn over me. Ick.

2. Walk over to Tiffany to pick up a gift I got for the wife (6th floor customer service). Cheap purchase, but treated very well. Go down to the mezzanine level to the Patek salon and had a lovely conversation with the young lady staffing the place that afternoon. Spoke about current models, pocket watches, etc. Fairly well informed, great manners. Loved the experience.

Also, she was kind of hot. Won't rule out that factor in terms of why I enjoyed the experience.

3. Headed to Wempe to say hello - know many of the salespeople there (if I go AD I usually buy at Wempe). Drinks offered, chatted to folks who weren't busy, President of Wempe stopped by and said hello. Asked about the 5711 he sold me, told him he ain't buying it back from me just yet. Super nice guy, down to earth. Loved the experience.

And all this from stores who are in direct competition with each other, a few blocks apart. Friend who used to work for Tourneau and who moved to Wempe basically said everyone who works for Tourneau wishes they could leave... and work for Wempe haha.

My experiences, and those of my father have resulted in us never purchasing any watches in NYC. Actually, only my wife has a dedicated sales person in NYC, but its for jewelry.

1. Tourneau, I consider a complete waste of time. Their sales people lack any useful knowledge, and in my experience they hover annoyingly even before you want to look at anything, as they have to fight off the other vulture like sales people that might talk to you and steal their sale. Its a very uncomfortable situation. In addition, years ago when it was known you could get discounts on any Rolex except a steel Daytona they would still spout off non-sense to try to get you to buy there...saying, "Rolex are never discounted. If you are able to get a discount on a Rolex it's either used or from a gray-market dealer." That was complete BS, but I'm sure a few suckers fell for it occasionally.

2. My last experience at Tiffany wasn't enjoyable. So I won't buy anything from them. I went to their Patek Boutique as I was narrowing down my choices Patek Aquanaut, Nautilus, AP RO Jumbo or Chronograph, and VC Overseas Chronograph. There were two male sales associates, who had nothing to do before my wife and I got there. They had an reasonable amount of info about the watches, and seemed pleasant enough. I thought things went well. However, I guess since I was only wearing a dress shirt, jeans, and my Rolex OYSTERQUARTZ (I often wear it if I go to NYC so I can bring it to Rolex to change the battery, which Rolex does gratis), I wasn't quite good enough for them. I thanked them and took the card of the main person that helped me. I went to use the rest room which is on the same level, but around a doorway, my wife waited near the doorway and heard them critiquing me. When I came out of the rest room she told me what was happening. I went back and said, "If you guys really want to learn something about selling watches here's some advice, at least wait until the customers are gone to criticize them." They started to apologize, but I simply handed the business card back and said "I won't be needing this. I'm sure another AD for Patek, AP or VC would be happy to assist me."

3. Wempe, I like looking in the window, but it always feels weird and like its a chore if I want to see something since half the time they need to fumble with window displays. In addition, I've always been able to get better deals from local ADs than what they could provide.

4. I have been into Cellini a few times, but I don't like the games they play when it comes to finding out what the final price will be. This is not specific to them, I've encountered it at several NYC ADs. It goes something like this. Me: "I'm very interested in this. What is your best deal on it?" them "Well, are you going to buy this right now?" me: "Depends on the price." Them: "Well if you won't commit to buying this right now I can't give you my best price." me: "How can I tell if I should commit to this if you won't give me your best price?" While I liked the sales person there who helped me with APs and Piagets, he wouldn't tell me his best price, but asked me to promise to call him when I had shopped around. I shopped around while in another state and liked another AP AD. He gave me 1 price. No negotiating, said it was his best deal and to think on it. I called the other guy and he wanted to know the best price I got. I would not give him the other AD's price. I told him that would not be fair, he wouldn't like it if I went back to the other guy with his best price and asked him to beat it. I told him it has to be honest and fair and if he really has the best deal he has nothing to worry about. He eventually called me back with a price that wasn't as good and then started telling me that they provide better customer service than anyplace else. I said I'd think on it. I went with the other AD, genuinely a nice guy, no game playing and the item was as promised. I'm a bit crazy and if buying new, it has to be absolutely pristine, with all of the plastic still on it. He was true to his word, called me and said he wouldn't even take it out of the shipping packaging. I would be the one to cut it open, and handle it, and I was.

So far watch purchases just don't seem like they are meant to be for me in NYC. Still, its always fun visiting the city and seeing some interesting watches.

 

[in stitches]



Nonetheless, an absolutely phenomenal piece for that kind of price. Mmmm I love that watch.

yes!

 

[in stitches]

dino - i want to reply to #4 in your post from a different POV, as its a very important convo imo, but im short on time. will do later.

 

[dopey]

I look forward to stitchy's comments - these are great discussions.
Also - love the AT, Stitchy. It is a great watch. I think the small, no-date, black face is my favorite from that line (railmaster, I think), but they are all great watches. Someone will be very happy with it.

 

[rnguy001]

Roger - Some of your past timepieces have me salivating - Moser ...GS... JLC Master Reveil? I think we need to see a full chronological horological resume when you get the chance please!

I posted pics of it here when I bought it - but this is one seriously fast-moving thread. And now don't seem to be able to post pics from my office 'puter at all. Here is a link to one of the pics for you anyway: http://www.fototime.com/391C7626913DC43/orig.jpg $7k would be quite low. Most I have seen are in the $9k range.

 

[wurger]



dino - i want to reply to #4 in your post from a different POV, as its a very important convo imo, but im short on time. will do later.

Haha, stitchy and I both comes from sales background, can't wait for his POV.

 

[in stitches]



I look forward to stitchy's comments - these are great discussions.
Also - love the AT, Stitchy. It is a great watch. I think the small, no-date, black face is my favorite from that line (railmaster, I think), but they are all great watches. Someone will be very happy with it.

Haha, stitchy and I both comes from sales background, can't wait for his POV.

ill go out of order here for a minute. the AT is great. id be super tempted if i had not got my hands on the ToG. im hoping it finds a home with a loving owner, maybe even an SFer as some interest has been shown.

ANOTHER LONG POST!!!!!

back to dinos point #4. i do understand where he is coming from, especially since he is a serious customer. how can one really be expected to commit to a purchase without a price? and i think the rest of the story was kind of the proof being in the pudding with that fellow that he wasnt really ever going to put his money where his mouth was. in a way its not entirely dissimilar from buying a used car, some places negotiate/hold out on price until the customer starts with a number, some places just up and say this is the price, take it or leave it.

each has its upsides and downsides. if you are going to be willing to negotiate, you have to be good at it and not come off like a sleaze-ball. if you succeed at that, it can be great for buyer and seller. if not, it can be horrible. if you are going to have a no hassle policy, you also have to have good prices and you have to stick to your guns. if you have crappy prices or if people know that you are a flip flopper on your policy, that can also be horrible.

that being said, no seller really HAS to negotiate or not not negotiate, its a matter of a business owner deciding what way is best for his business based on his clientele/demographic/competitors... my experience as a person who has done work in both, but mostly within places that do negotiate, is as follows:

the idea is, "you dont want to be the customers first stop, you want to be their last." meaning, often times a person comes in looking at a piece, and they are drilling you for your bottom dollar just so they can go to their friend/cousin/other place.... and say "hey, i can get this for X, you said you will beat anyone, thats the number yo have to beat." and that sucks for place number one. no one likes dropping their pants only to be glanced at and then walked out on. when you are willing to negotiate, you want someone who has done their homework and is ready to rock and roll if you can give a great deal and come to mutually agreeable terms.

obviously no seller can expect a potential buyer to 100% agree to a purchase without a firm price. what i think the SA in that situation was trying to do, but failed miserably at was as follows. any serious buyer will know the price of the watch, and the range within he can expect a potential discount.

the question therefore is not,

A. "will you 100% buy this from me if i give you my best price (and lets assume you believe me that i really am giving you my best price), even though you dont know what i am going to say?" that is dumb.

the question is

B. "we both know you are truly interested in this piece and that you know the price range. if i give you my best possible price, are you willing to potentially make the purchase today, or at least leave a deposit to guarantee it? because if you are just pricing me out, i cant give you my best price. we can talk when you are really giving me a chance to close this deal." because the flip side of that is the customer who has no intent of buying at all, but just wants to leverage you. that is what the SA should be trying to avoid.

and some places that do that, will even give a number that isnt really their lowest, if they feel that whatever they say the customer will ask for a better deal. and yes, i have had countless customers do that, and you can almost always tell when its coming. lets say the price is 1750, if i say 1000, even though its a ridiculous price, that id only offer to keep someone from walking, they will ask for 950, and i cant do 950. if i say 1200 they will say 1100, and we agree. and they didnt get the best deal. they screwed themselves because i could tell that i had to leave myself room or there was no way to close it. thats part of the strategy both people agree to when you negotiate that way. and the reason is, because in those situations its not about that customer saving money, they just want to feel like they beat you. whatever you say, they need to pay less, and if they do, they feel they have won. you want to play games, fine, but know that its a gamble.

other times, i can tell the person really just wants the best deal, and ill put it out there HAPPILY. knowing that they are not just trying to win or leverage my offer for lower price, they just want a good deal, and im happy to oblige.

and imo that is 100% fair. as a business person you need to CYA, and a reasonable customer should know that. sometimes the customer calls the bluff and the price gets lower, sometimes they agree on the price even it it isnt the absolute lowest the SA can go. but why should the SA be required to always sell at the bottom most price? it doesnt matter if you the customer really got the BEST PRICE EVAR ZOMG!!!111! what matters is that the seller and buyer are both happy and satisfied with the price. i dont care how high a sellers margins are, thats not my business. all that matters is am i happy with the price. what he gets on his end is his business not mine.

now, a good sales person should be able to sort the liars from the pack, but there are always good liars who say that yes they are ready if the price is right, even though they are full of crap, but you know that is a potential situation when you agree to negotiate, and its your job as a sales person to do your best to assess the situation in front of you. the challenge is, being able to assess the customers level of readiness to commit if the price is right, knowing what number to put out first, and framing it in a way that you keep the customer engaged and interested without screwing yourself or the customer in the process. if you can do that, its a very beneficial way for both parties to transact. if you cant walk that line, then you wont find much success, as happened with dimo.


YMMV, but that is my take on this type of situation.

 

[wurger]

I look forward to stitchy's comments - these are great discussions.
Also - love the AT, Stitchy. It is a great watch. I think the small, no-date, black face is my favorite from that line (railmaster, I think), but they are all great watches. Someone will be very happy with it.

Haha, stitchy and I both comes from sales background, can't wait for his POV.

ill go out of order here for a minute. the AT is great. id be super tempted if i had not got my hands on the ToG. im hoping it finds a home with a loving owner, maybe even an SFer as some interest has been shown.

ANOTHER LONG POST!!!!!

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

back to dinos point #4. i do understand where he is coming from, especially since he is a serious customer. how can one really be expected to commit to a purchase without a price? and i think the rest of the story was kind of the proof being in the pudding with that fellow that he wasnt really ever going to put his money where his mouth was. in a way its not entirely dissimilar from buying a used car, some places negotiate/hold out on price until the customer starts with a number, some places just up and say this is the price, take it or leave it.

each has its upsides and downsides. if you are going to be willing to negotiate, you have to be good at it and not come off like a sleaze-ball. if you succeed at that, it can be great for buyer and seller. if not, it can be horrible. if you are going to have a no hassle policy, you also have to have good prices and you have to stick to your guns. if you have crappy prices or if people know that you are a flip flopper on your policy, that can also be horrible.

that being said, no seller really HAS to negotiate or not not negotiate, its a matter of a business owner deciding what way is best for his business based on his clientele/demographic/competitors... my experience as a person who has done work in both, but mostly within places that do negotiate, is as follows:

the idea is, "you dont want to be the customers first stop, you want to be their last." meaning, often times a person comes in looking at a piece, and they are drilling you for your bottom dollar just so they can go to their friend/cousin/other place.... and say "hey, i can get this for X, you said you will beat anyone, thats the number yo have to beat." and that sucks for place number one. no one likes dropping their pants only to be glanced at and then walked out on. when you are willing to negotiate, you want someone who has done their homework and is ready to rock and roll if you can give a great deal and come to mutually agreeable terms.

obviously no seller can expect a potential buyer to 100% agree to a purchase without a firm price. what i think the SA in that situation was trying to do, but failed miserably at was as follows. any serious buyer will know the price of the watch, and the range within he can expect a potential discount.

the question therefore is not,

A. "will you 100% buy this from me if i give you my best price (and lets assume you believe me that i really am giving you my best price), even though you dont know what i am going to say?" that is dumb.

the question is

B. "we both know you are truly interested in this piece and that you know the price range. if i give you my best possible price, are you willing to potentially make the purchase today, or at least leave a deposit to guarantee it? because if you are just pricing me out, i cant give you my best price. we can talk when you are really giving me a chance to close this deal." because the flip side of that is the customer who has no intent of buying at all, but just wants to leverage you. that is what the SA should be trying to avoid.

and some places that do that, will even give a number that isnt really their lowest, if they feel that whatever they say the customer will ask for a better deal. and yes, i have had countless customers do that, and you can almost always tell when its coming. lets say the price is 1750, if i say 1000, even though its a ridiculous price, that id only offer to keep someone from walking, they will ask for 950, and i cant do 950. if i say 1200 they will say 1100, and we agree. and they didnt get the best deal. they screwed themselves because i could tell that i had to leave myself room or there was no way to close it. thats part of the strategy both people agree to when you negotiate that way. and the reason is, because in those situations its not about that customer saving money, they just want to feel like they beat you. whatever you say, they need to pay less, and if they do, they feel they have won. you want to play games, fine, but know that its a gamble.

other times, i can tell the person really just wants the best deal, and ill put it out there HAPPILY. knowing that they are not just trying to win or leverage my offer for lower price, they just want a good deal, and im happy to oblige.

and imo that is 100% fair. as a business person you need to CYA, and a reasonable customer should know that. sometimes the customer calls the bluff and the price gets lower, sometimes they agree on the price even it it isnt the absolute lowest the SA can go. but why should the SA be required to always sell at the bottom most price? it doesnt matter if you the customer really got the BEST PRICE EVAR ZOMG!!!111! what matters is that the seller and buyer are both happy and satisfied with the price. i dont care how high a sellers margins are, thats not my business. all that matters is am i happy with the price. what he gets on his end is his business not mine.

now, a good sales person should be able to sort the liars from the pack, but there are always good liars who say that yes they are ready if the price is right, even though they are full of crap, but you know that is a potential situation when you agree to negotiate, and its your job as a sales person to do your best to assess the situation in front of you. the challenge is, being able to assess the customers level of readiness to commit if the price is right, knowing what number to put out first, and framing it in a way that you keep the customer engaged and interested without screwing yourself or the customer in the process. if you can do that, its a very beneficial way for both parties to transact. if you cant walk that line, then you wont find much success, as happened with dimo.


YMMV, but that is my take on this type of situation.

Top post from a seasoned sales, and there is nothing for me to add to!

especially the master class question of "we both know you are truly interested in this piece and that you know the price range. if i give you my best possible price, are you willing to potentially make the purchase today, or at least leave a deposit to guarantee it? because if you are just pricing me out, i cant give you my best price. we can talk when you are really giving me a chance to close this deal."

 

[RogerP]

Roger - Some of your past timepieces have me salivating - Moser ...GS... JLC Master Reveil? I think we need to see a full chronological horological resume when you get the chance please!

I'd probably scare the crap out of myself pndering all the money I have spent on watches over the years.

 

[RogerP]

Stitchy - the way you rephrased the question in example "B" is not objectionable to me in any way. But I too have gone watch shopping in NYC a few times. Unsurpassed selection. NEVER bought anything. Because what I hear time and again is example "A". [Funny story about the last car dealer that tried to get me to put $500 on my cc as a "good faith" precondition to negotiating price, but I'm trying to stay on topic here].

I don't get this in T.O. A dealer will tell me their best price without trying to strong-arm me to commit to an on-the-spot purchase. I may be considering a competing model that this dealer doesn't carry. I may try to effect a quick sale to help fund the purchase. I may have any number of reasons for NOT being willing to drop coin then and there, yet still be very serious in my intention to buy that watch from that dealer.

But if I can't get a straight answer on price, that aint gonna happen.

Admittedly most of my purchases are on the secondary market, but my shopping experience in T.O. at better ADs has consistently been good. In NYC, consistently not. And this is the reason.

 

[Newcomer]

You know, funny enough, where I live I have received absolutely terrible service. The last couple of times I have worn my JLC when out watch shopping, and at both ADs near me the sales rep said something to the effect of "you look like you could use an upgrade, let me show you these B&Ms or Hamiltons. These are our Rolexes / IWCs / whatever, let me show you something more reasonably priced."

By saying that, they are making so many darned assumptions it is absurd. I do not get the watch bashing. That is probably the most questionable technique I have seen. Thus, I have purchased my watches exclusively from FADs.

 

[in stitches]

Lots if sales people are morans. More later.

 

[Dino944]

Haha, stitchy and I both comes from sales background, can't wait for his POV.

I've worked in high end retail also.

ANOTHER LONG POST!!!!!

back to dinos point #4. i do understand where he is coming from, especially since he is a serious customer. how can one really be expected to commit to a purchase without a price? and i think the rest of the story was kind of the proof being in the pudding with that fellow that he wasnt really ever going to put his money where his mouth was. in a way its not entirely dissimilar from buying a used car, some places negotiate/hold out on price until the customer starts with a number, some places just up and say this is the price, take it or leave it.

each has its upsides and downsides. if you are going to be willing to negotiate, you have to be good at it and not come off like a sleaze-ball. if you succeed at that, it can be great for buyer and seller. if not, it can be horrible. if you are going to have a no hassle policy, you also have to have good prices and you have to stick to your guns. if you have crappy prices or if people know that you are a flip flopper on your policy, that can also be horrible.

that being said, no seller really HAS to negotiate or not not negotiate, its a matter of a business owner deciding what way is best for his business based on his clientele/demographic/competitors... my experience as a person who has done work in both, but mostly within places that do negotiate, is as follows:

the idea is, "you dont want to be the customers first stop, you want to be their last." meaning, often times a person comes in looking at a piece, and they are drilling you for your bottom dollar just so they can go to their friend/cousin/other place.... and say "hey, i can get this for X, you said you will beat anyone, thats the number yo have to beat." and that sucks for place number one. no one likes dropping their pants only to be glanced at and then walked out on. when you are willing to negotiate, you want someone who has done their homework and is ready to rock and roll if you can give a great deal and come to mutually agreeable terms.

obviously no seller can expect a potential buyer to 100% agree to a purchase without a firm price. what i think the SA in that situation was trying to do, but failed miserably at was as follows. any serious buyer will know the price of the watch, and the range within he can expect a potential discount.

the question therefore is not,

A. "will you 100% buy this from me if i give you my best price (and lets assume you believe me that i really am giving you my best price), even though you dont know what i am going to say?" that is dumb.

the question is

B. "we both know you are truly interested in this piece and that you know the price range. if i give you my best possible price, are you willing to potentially make the purchase today, or at least leave a deposit to guarantee it? because if you are just pricing me out, i cant give you my best price. we can talk when you are really giving me a chance to close this deal." because the flip side of that is the customer who has no intent of buying at all, but just wants to leverage you. that is what the SA should be trying to avoid.

and some places that do that, will even give a number that isnt really their lowest, if they feel that whatever they say the customer will ask for a better deal. and yes, i have had countless customers do that, and you can almost always tell when its coming. lets say the price is 1750, if i say 1000, even though its a ridiculous price, that id only offer to keep someone from walking, they will ask for 950, and i cant do 950. if i say 1200 they will say 1100, and we agree. and they didnt get the best deal. they screwed themselves because i could tell that i had to leave myself room or there was no way to close it. thats part of the strategy both people agree to when you negotiate that way. and the reason is, because in those situations its not about that customer saving money, they just want to feel like they beat you. whatever you say, they need to pay less, and if they do, they feel they have won. you want to play games, fine, but know that its a gamble.

other times, i can tell the person really just wants the best deal, and ill put it out there HAPPILY. knowing that they are not just trying to win or leverage my offer for lower price, they just want a good deal, and im happy to oblige.

and imo that is 100% fair. as a business person you need to CYA, and a reasonable customer should know that. sometimes the customer calls the bluff and the price gets lower, sometimes they agree on the price even it it isnt the absolute lowest the SA can go. but why should the SA be required to always sell at the bottom most price? it doesnt matter if you the customer really got the BEST PRICE EVAR ZOMG!!!111! what matters is that the seller and buyer are both happy and satisfied with the price. i dont care how high a sellers margins are, thats not my business. all that matters is am i happy with the price. what he gets on his end is his business not mine.

now, a good sales person should be able to sort the liars from the pack, but there are always good liars who say that yes they are ready if the price is right, even though they are full of crap, but you know that is a potential situation when you agree to negotiate, and its your job as a sales person to do your best to assess the situation in front of you. the challenge is, being able to assess the customers level of readiness to commit if the price is right, knowing what number to put out first, and framing it in a way that you keep the customer engaged and interested without screwing yourself or the customer in the process. if you can do that, its a very beneficial way for both parties to transact. if you cant walk that line, then you wont find much success, as happened with dimo.


YMMV, but that is my take on this type of situation.

Stitchy,

Always a pleasure reading your thoughts on watches and from a sales perspective. Let me start by saying, I've worked in high end retail. I know what its like spend time on tire kickers or people that are just in the store with friends to look like big shots who might buy a high end item...but never do. So I have sympathy for sales associates, and I'm a firm believer that on items that can be negotiated, everyone can be a winner. I should feel like I got a good deal, but I also want the sales associate or business owner to feel that they sold the item for a fair price, they can make a profit, and they were glad to do business with me. I've had sales relationships that have lasted for several years (in some cases more than 10 years). I've been invited to their homes and parties...so if I had a history of jerking business owners or sales people around, I probably wouldn't get invited to their homes.

That being said, in an effort to just have a paragraph or so about each of the stores I visited in NYC, a few details were left out. However, so that you have a more complete understanding of my dealings with Cellini, and the AD from another state, let me start by saying, I started my quest for a high end sports watch on a visit to NYC in May 2012, without any intention of buying during that trip. I wanted to look and try on VCs, APs, Pateks, and a few other watches that are not available through ADs or Boutiques in my home state. Each place I went to on my initial visit I told them I was considering a few watches to mark an occasion, and I needed to see them and try them on to narrow down my selection. I discovered that none of the ADs in the States had received their allotment of Jumbos. After spending time looking at APs with the sales associate at Cellini, I explained what I was interested in and what I was looking in terms of brands. I told him I still had some looking to do. I did ask what kind of discounting one could expect on an AP as I had never bought one. He said they discount, but not as much as they used to years ago. He gave me his card and said to call him if I decided that I really wanted a Jumbo and he would look into availability. He said to shop with him last. He also asked for my contact info which I gave to him. I did my home work, decided I wanted the Jumbo and called several places.

I called Govberg, since I had heard of them and they said they had a wait list and probably no discount. I called a place I knew was an AD in Chicago, they said they only expected 1 watch for the year and that it was spoke for at full price. I called the AD (I eventually bought from) and he we chatted on the phone. He talked to me about APs history, Genta, the RO's history and other interesting things having to do with the brand. I told him I was interested in a Jumbo. He said he said he would have to talk to the AP Rep about availability and that he would call me the next day. He called and we chatted some more about APs, ROs, and the availability of Jumbos. I asked him what the best deal he could offer me was. He put me on hold for a minute or so, and then gave me a figure. I asked if he could do any better. He replied, that he wished he could, but that was the best he could do. He was closing for the day and told me to think on it and if were interested he would need a small deposit $500. I said ok. The next day I called the Cellini guy and told him I had done my home work and I was interested in a RO Jumbo. He said he would have to look into availability. I said what can he do on the price...he asked me if I could commit to buying it right now. I asked how I could commit when he hadn't given me a price? He said he could only get me a soft price right now and if I were certain I would commit to him, he would see if he could do better.. Then he started to tell me that its a tough model to get, blah blah blah. I said, "Look I visited you in your store. I called you on the phone to get a price and availability. I have a price from another AD." At which point he asked what the price was. I said that wouldn't be fair to the other guy who already gave me a price. If you want me to consider buying from you I need a price." He said he would get back to me on availability and price. I said sounds good. He called me later that day and gave me a price and availability. I said I have a better price from the other AD, but thank you. He said he gave me a soft price and that maybe had a little more room but he didn't think there would be a lot. I said, the other guy gave me his best price if you want to do the same fine, but if not his price is better. Then he started telling me their customer service is better than anyone else's. Then he said well if he knew what the other offered and maybe they could match it. I said, what for...if it weren't for the other guy I wouldn't get a better price from you so shouldn't I reward the other guy. He said he would see what he could do. He called and left a message saying he could only do a very little better. The other guy was significantly less, so I didn't bother to find out what a second very small discount was, especially as I found the entire ordeal a f*cking waste of my time. I wasn't trying to ********* over, nickel and dime him, waste his time, or make him sell for what he couldn't sell it for. Just give me the best deal you can. If it works great if not, no hard feelings. However, if the other guy could give me a single fair price...it just made me feel the Cellini guy wasted my time (and his own). I find the used car tactics annoying and tiresome. I sent my deposit to the other guy, he ordered my watch and he got the sale.

While I get the entire thing about someone using their negotiations with a sales associate to get a price or leverage from some place a friend or relative has...then on some level did you really lose a sale no matter what price you gave? He had no intention of buying from you...so you couldn't really lose the sale. Although, if you gave a tough low figure...it probably annoyed and put quite a squeeze on the friend/relative dealer.

I think in your situation Stitchy, on used pieces its more complicated. What you can sell a piece for an still do well, maybe be different than for an AD. You guys buy your pieces from owners who may or may not know the market so there is greater variation for what you can buy for and sell for and make a good profit. Also, when the next piece in similar condition is coming in you don't know and neither does the buyer. Another store may not have the same pieces to directly compete with you. With ADs their purchase price is the same, they can get the same inventory etc.. Their margins may differ a bit based on overhead etc., but theoretically, most can should be able to give similar deals.

In the end I'm a firm believer that fair deals can be made where everyone is happy, buyer and seller. But my experience in NYC ADs, (more so than anywhere) is the used car sales man tactics, where they won't even give a price unless I say I'll buy, without having a real price from them.

 

[Flake]

Only time I was ever treated like I was completely invisible in a watch shop was at Wempe in NY, about 10 years ago. Haven't been back since.

Wanted to look at Langes, and seriously could have bought one that day, had things gone well. Admittedly, I was in jeans, but i would have assumed the Breguet I was wearing would have suggested I was at least a serious potential customer.

 

[cyc wid it]

Looks like I can cross watch shopping off my list when I visit NYC later this year.