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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Great watch and one of the few Omegas that has always captured my heart and interests. Also, great reading about how you came to make your decision. It is truly an iconic watch, and a tremendous value. It is a quality piece that should give you many years or decades of enjoyments! At some point I might add one to my own collection.

    I think its history and price are great reasons for choosing a Speedmaster. However, I would suggest that NASA's tests while relevant in the 1960s, are today little more than a historic footnote and have no bearing on the modern Speedmasters or Daytonas. While the classic manual wind Speedy Pro is very close to what went to the moon, its movement and bracelet are not the same, and avid collectors prefer the original with original movement. Furthermore, the Daytona is about as far from the Daytonas of the 1960s as a Model T Ford is from 2013 Ford Mustang. The movement in the 1960s Daytonas was a manual wind Valjoux. By 1988/89 the Daytona movement was an automatic, based on Zeniths El Primero, but highly revised, and by 2000/01 the Daytona's movement was a completely in house automatic movement with a 72 hour power reserve. In addition, the case, bracelet, dials, etc are complete different, and even as of 1988/89 the Daytonas were far more water resistant (100m) than Speedy Pros.

    As for prestige and fame, its relative and depends on how its measured. Yes, the Speedy has been to the Moon, its been around for longer than the Daytona, and its a very important piece of horological history. However, the Daytona is iconic in its own right, as a watch chosen by race car drivers, the most famous being Paul Newman, Jackie Stewart, and Hurley Haywood. For nearly 20 years it was "THE" sports watch to own. In all steel it was so highly sought after that for nearly 15 years, most AD had waiting lists that were years long, and if one could buy one at list price it could easily be flipped in 24 hours or 5 years later for a profit of between 50 and 100% depending on where you lived...and that's not even considering auction results of vintage models. So I'd say they are at least equally famous and prestigious, but different.

    I think the Speedy Pro is a fantastic watch, I love its history. However, if one is comparing the modern versions, the current Daytona is a bit more practical (auto with 3 day power reserve), more water resistant, and more rugged. Today there are modern Speedies that are more rugged, practical, and competitive with current Daytonas, but those lose their historic significance. I just think you have clarify that today's watches are quite different from that which was offered by in the 1960s, and hence NASA's choice might not be a reason to make a choice, other than it adds to its historical significance.

    I really love both watches. In the end there is no wrong answer when it comes to choosing between them. Buyers of each will walk away with smiles on their faces and feeling like they made a fantastic choice!
     


  2. wurger

    wurger Senior member

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    Thank you Dino944, perfect reply to my spill, I think our posts cover pretty much all aspects of the argument now succinctly in 2 posts. :D

    "Iconic" was the word i was looking for while posting at midnight, instead I had to find a few other lesser adjectives to put in its place, sighs, a whole day out with the missus must be draining on my brain...

    Now, I did skim over the reasoning and justification for the Speedy and Daytona, I truly think my mind was so clouded by the marketing of Omega, even though most of them are factual, and the enthusiastic fan base for the Speedy in watch forums; I either deliberately or subconsciously pushed the valid points you provided into a dark corner of my mind and boxed it away, and I actually did read up and was fully aware of the things you wrote before I made the decision as I was doing research on the Daytona too. I reckon it must be due to the self justification I did to myself after my purchase. (the Omega marketing team must have a smirk on their face now)

    Now that you kindly reminded me the positives of the Daytona, the door is now ajar for it in my collection.... must resist!!!!
     


  3. Hayward

    Hayward Senior member

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    I'll offer a rebuttal to all this later, but for now we need more pics of Rolexes and food.
    [​IMG]
     


  4. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    The Daytona is kind of like the Borg. Resistance is futile.

    [​IMG]

    Boom!

    And since I mentioned the Borg, it would be almost criminal for me not to post a shout out to my favorite (ex)-Borg, Seven of Nine played by Jeri Ryan.

    [​IMG]

    On topic: do you think the Omega Speedmaster would be the watch that members of the Enterprise would end up using?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013


  5. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

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    In agreement in regards to the Daytona and Speedy Pro.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013


  6. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    I humbly agree with everyone's assessment of the Speedy Pro :). I would love to add a Daytona to the stable one day!

    [​IMG]
     


  7. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Wurger, no worries. I enjoyed your post. Its always interesting to see what makes other collectors make the choices that they do. I simply thought, it needed a little clarification.

    From my experience at various forums, both Daytona and Speedy Pro owners can be rather biased towards their respective choices, and rightly so because each bought a damn good watch!
    Each watch has so many great things about it, that one's decision can often be based on valuing certain factors a bit more than how another collector values them. Both companies have spent fortunes on PR for their watches and some of their ads are very compelling, whether they appeal to us by proving how rugged, versatile, or historically important they are. Let's face it most of us aren't going to the moon, and most of us will not be racing at the 24 Hours of Daytona. Each watch is more than competent for the duties of the average desk pilot. Therefore, either or both are fine additions to any SF's collection. [​IMG]
    That's a hot Borg! As for whether they would wear an Omega Speedy...nah, too classic in design. I think it would be something far more futuristic...not necessarily attractive...maybe an Urwerk...but then again if Star Fleet Command simply chooses the lowest bidder for a governmental contract...it could be a cheap digital watch as found in a plastic rotating case at the local convenience store or pharmacy.

    Since Hayward is calling for more Rolex photos here goes...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     


  8. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    :nodding:


    thank you kindly, w. glad you enjoyed. i get much more credit for my writing skills when grammar and punctuation rules can be forgotten, as i prefer to write as if i was speaking, not as if i were an author. if that makes any sense. :)
    ---
    @dino and nuke - thank you both for your replies to my post. i very much enjoyed reading your responses, and its nice to see that with some deviations, we are pretty much on the same page.

    :cheers:
    ---
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013


  9. Hayward

    Hayward Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    My choice between the two would be the Speedy.

    To me, a chronograph is a working watch, a tool. It should look workmanlike. The Speedmaster is eminently legible.

    As elegant as the Daytona may be, it's nowhere near as clear to read. I don't doubt that it has a higher spec movement, but given that the Speedmaster survived NASA tests and use, does it matter? Granted the Rolex will run smoother and be more accurate and as an automatic will be more convenient. But we're talking government work here. I've only handled the Daytona in stores, but it just seems less exciting to operate. The Speedy has more of a sense of drama to it. The Daytona is like a Mercedes. A new Mercedes. The Speedmaster is more like the Range Rover you see on those crazy Top Gear episodes: It may well break down, but you can get it back up on the road again just buy banging on it, and you'll have more fun getting there. .

    Moreover, these are both relatively basic chronos as far as functions are concerned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Daytona doesn't have flyback or split-second functions, and neither does the Speedy. Can we get one of these two makers to make a center minute chronograph?

    Plus to me the Daytona just looks like an old man watch, rather like the Omega Connie. More leisure suit than lounge suit. Now of course if you throw in a 6263, all of that goes out the window. The 6263 would be more like the Mercedes 300 gullwing of watches.

    All of this of course should be taken with a grain of salt, since I'm far more likely to consider something incredibly obscure like the Lemania South African Air Force chronograph as the ultimate watch in this category.
     


  10. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    I am a gigantic fan of the Speedy. I posted a fairly extensive review of it over on WUS, that I will link over here for posterity.

    I think that a comparison between the Speedy and the Daytona just really isn't fair. They are two incredibly different watches, despite being black-dialed, stainless steel, sports chronographs. They both have storied histories, and they are both great watches in their own right. I will say this though. The Speedmaster that went to the moon sure as hell is not the speedmaster they are selling now.

    Here is a picture of the Cal 321 movement, and if you can see at 12:00, it was outfitted with a lovely column wheel:

    [​IMG]

    Whereas here is the Cal 1861:

    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately, Omega replaced the column wheel with a CAM system. Quel dommage.

    But the new Speedmaster is a great evolution of a great watch. It is probably my favorite watch I own.

    Speedy Review:

    Omega Speedmaster Professional 3570.50: Thoughts and Review.

    Preface: excuse my photography, it is not very good.

    Since there have already been an absurd number of reviews regarding this watch, I will not try to reinvent the wheel. Everyone knows the specs, and the general overview of the watch, so I would like to write something for those on the fence about picking one up! I have tried to be as honest as possible in writing this! Also, as an aside, I currently own a Seiko Orange Monster, Orient Black Mako, I used to have a Damasko DC56, I have handled the Rolex Explorer I, II, and Sub, and am now the owner of a JLC MUT Moon. So at the very least, I have handled watches in similar price ranges, and can at least perform some sort of comparative analysis. With that said, I do not proclaim to be an expert on much horologically, just an average guy with a passion for watches.

    First Impressions:

    To be honest… I was not overly impressed with the watch when I first opened the case! It was not really love at first sight. I had tried it on at an AD before purchasing from the FAD, and I enjoyed it, but I was always kind of reticent about purchasing the watch. The Speedy Pro was always more of an ‘intelligent’ purchase—it has pedigree, it is well-made, has a classic design, it is tough, etc. I really hoped that I would bond with it over the ensuing months. So, lets fast forward a few months…

    Four Months of Ownership:

    I think that I can safely say that I love my Speedmaster. I had a feeling that this day would come. I wear this darn watch every day I can, and there are just so many things about it that are awesome. My other watches have been thoroughly neglected (I am in casual-mode right now, so the JLC would not get much time anyways). So what do I love about it?

    First, the lyre lugs. If I can think of one thing I love about the watch, it has to be the lugs. I remember Seiko Ananta describing their lugs as inspired by Samurai Swords, or something of that ilk. That is the feeling that I get when I look at the lugs on the Speedy Pro. They are beautifully sculpted, and are a nice mix of brushed and polished surfaces. The polished features give the watch a nice ‘gleam’ when viewed from certain angles, but they do not really garner any attention. In fact, in the four months I have owned the watch, I have never had anyone notice it. Personally, that is a plus for me, but I guess that may be a negative for others. The attention to the case in general is absolutely amazing. The finishing is up to snuff with anyone in the same ball-park.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Second, the dial. I think the best part of the dial is that I seriously doubt it will ever get ‘old.’ It is classic, as perfectly proportioned as you can get, toolish, legible (both the chronograph indices and the time), and just plain pleasant to look at. It is nothing ‘special,’ and there are no gimmicks. But in simplicity there is much beauty! Form really does follow function, and there is nothing on the dial that is superfluous, which I appreciate. This may not be the kind of face that draws ‘oohs and ahhs,’ or that really anyone notices, but at the same time, I really cannot see anyone disliking it. When I hear negative remarks about the Speedy, people usually say “it’s boring,” “nothing special,” etc. However, I think it is very difficult to say that the dial is not aesthetically pleasing. The watch is not polarizing in the least, and I can really appreciate that. It is not like the Orange Monster, where comments run the gamut. Now, with that said, although I do love the dial, at times I wish that it had a bit more flash and panache. But then I remember, such attributes often get old. I am glad that Omega decided not to spruce up the dial like they did with the new Planet Ocean, and have kept the Speedy pretty much untouched. As much as I loved the look of the appliqués on the new PO when I first saw it, I have grown to appreciate more and more the look of the original painted numerals. Same things goes with something like the Sub. I think that by adding the white gold border around the lume plots, they really compromised the simplicity and the toolishness of the dial.

    [​IMG]

    And don't forget, the dial is made even more beautiful with that beautiful domed hesalite. It really does add a warmth, as has been said ad nauseum. But it is a warmth that you have to see and experience to really understand! I wrote off the term warmth as well when I first heard it. But the watch really does look different from every possible angle, and that makes it very special in my opinion. The black color of the dial is much softer when viewed through the hesalite. It almost gives it a brownish-yellow tinge. I would urge any first time Speedy buyer to consider the hesalite. After four months, I still do not even have a tiny scratch on it, and it really adds to the aesthetics.

    [​IMG]

    The movement so far has treated me far better than I expected. It really does not gain or lose any time. Since I have owned it, I usually let it wind down before I ever change the time. It fluctuates a little bit, but it is still almost down to the second. I am probably a lucky case though! For those people who have been deterred at the thought of owning a manual… DON’T BE! It is GREAT. It has completely converted me over to the ‘other’ side. It is such a pleasing ritualistic behavior, and really helps you bond with the watch. It is like the watch equivalent of breast-feeding (but to a lesser extent).

    [​IMG]

    I can think of a few negatives I guess (although none of them are deal breakers for me). The play with the pushers is not the best, but I guess that can be expected from a chronograph in this price range. Personally, I think that the bracelet may need a little bit of an overhaul. Don’t get me wrong, it is not bad, but there are some things that sort of bother me. I think that, at the very least, the bracelet could be better integrated with the lugs. If you look closely, the endlinks, although they sit flush with the case, do not curve with the lugs. To be honest, I think that the bracelet design kind of clashes with the overall design of the watch. I think it as aesthetically pleasing design, there is just something about it that I feel doesn’t go with the watch. I also think that it could be beefed up to be more proportional to the case. With all that said, it is very comfortable, and does not catch hairs.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The clasp it solid, but I think that it could also be improved upon. When I compare it to the clasp on the new Explorer or Submariner, I really think that Omega could start improving upon their designs. With that said, it does not feel tinny, has a nice weight, is comfortable, and I have not had any issues with it.
     


  11. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    Really, really, really disagree with this statement - there are so many interesting "dress" chronographs, past and present. Not to mention the perpetual calendar chronographs which are almost exclusively "dress" watches.

    Sure, I get the tool reference, but to extend the analogy - there are sharpened rocks... and then there are samurai swords. Both fulfill the same function, one just looks a hell of a lot nicer while doing so. :tounge:
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013


  12. wurger

    wurger Senior member

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    Great review and photos! especially the shots of the different movements.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013


  13. papa kot

    papa kot Senior member

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    I agree with the most of the items. Yet this writing fails to mention one critical thing: What you buy says more about you than it says about the product. People have values and people tend to buy services and products from the companies with similar values. That's why it may be hard for some people to ditch the expensive watch habit and it may be even harder for brands to attract buyers who simply have different value preferences. If one seeks a timeless design and ability to repair a watch for many years to come, then why would she go outside of the brands who have already delivered on this promise? If another seeks luxury and exclusivity (e.g., limited number of watches), then going with a mass produced item does not make sense.

    In other words, we are all victims of marketing one way or another. The only difference is in the nerve endings a marketing message strikes.
     


  14. wurger

    wurger Senior member

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    Omega Speedmaster X-33 2nd Gen

    I went a bit overboard after I purchased my Speedy Pro, read up on its proposed replacement, X-33, and the fact only NASA and USAF pilots can order them since 2006 made me want one, so went to Rakuten and sourced a Japanese 2nd hand one.

    While it's a great tool watch made in Titanium, thus very light, I think this is the first time I wore in it the last year. My original plan was to wear the watch while I work out, and that clearly didn't work out, :happy:

    It now rests in my winder box and acts as the time correction watch for my other mechanical watches.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013


  15. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    Men have been striving to out do each other since time immemorial. We've moved on from banging each other with rocks, to stabbing each other with bronze spears, to slashing each other with iron swords, to outdoing each other at court with the best outfits and hairdos, to buying the best furniture to fill our houses, to dressing down and competing to capture the spirit of understated elegance, to sporting the most recognisable brands, to blinging it out and conspicuous consumption... to purchasing watches with steel cases and gold rotors that make us feel just that little bit superior than the other fellow with the gold watch with the steel rotor.

    :D

    (this post may or may not have been made under the influence of some fine amber 80 proof liquid that is old enough to sleep with legally)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013


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