Sorry, but your statement about Cartier seems groundless or as though you are not very familiar with the brand. Cartier is one of the largest watch manufacturers in the world. Often only out done in production by Rolex. Are you aware they made their first watch before Rolex existed? Cartier has made wrist watches now for more than 100 years and I think they will be in this business for a very long time. I think their choice to employ movements from ETA in many of their main stream watches, is based on their desire to cover a large variety of budgets. However, they make several watches with inhouse movements, and some of their other high end watches have used movements from Piaget, JLC, F.Piguet, and THA. If you are faulting them because some of their watches do not use in house movements, IMHO, that's just silly. Is Rolex a real watch manufacturer because their watches are made in house? Oh wait a minute not all of them are made in house, they gave their lesser line of ETA powered watches a different name, Tudor. Oh and don't forget until cal 4130 came out around 2000/2001, all of their chronographs used outsourced movements. In addition, many of their products from the 1930s have cases and movements similar to Gruen, why, because both used the same suppliers. Rolex largely became a company making their watches completely in house by eventually purchasing the suppliers for their cases, bracelets, movements and other components. Nothing wrong with that, I adore Rolex, but one should not forget they haven't not always been a "Manufacturer." Not to mention, some Cartiers are more finely finished than a Rolex (even when not using an inhouse movement). In addition, the Patek, AP, and VC, Breguet, and BP have all used outside sources for their movements, particular chronographs (Patek only recently started making their own chronograph movements). In addition, Omega, Breitling, and IWC until recently all relied heavily on Valjoux 7750s and ETA movements. While I understand the term manufacturer, and that today's collectors prefer watches use inhouse movements when possible, however I don't think that is a measure of a brand's importance in the world of horology, nor do I think you can say Cartier is not a watch manufacturer or is any less of a manufacturer ( than Rolex, AP, Breguet, VC etc), when many great companies still use movements made by outside sources. If you don't like Cartier I can accept that, but your statement about not considering them a manufacturer is silly.