The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Sorry, but your statement about Cartier seems groundless or as though you are not very familiar with the brand. Cartier is one of the largest watch manufacturers in the world. Often only out done in production by Rolex. Are you aware they made their first watch before Rolex existed? Cartier has made wrist watches now for more than 100 years and I think they will be in this business for a very long time. I think their choice to employ movements from ETA in many of their main stream watches, is based on their desire to cover a large variety of budgets. However, they make several watches with inhouse movements, and some of their other high end watches have used movements from Piaget, JLC, F.Piguet, and THA.

    If you are faulting them because some of their watches do not use in house movements, IMHO, that's just silly. Is Rolex a real watch manufacturer because their watches are made in house? Oh wait a minute not all of them are made in house, they gave their lesser line of ETA powered watches a different name, Tudor. Oh and don't forget until cal 4130 came out around 2000/2001, all of their chronographs used outsourced movements. In addition, many of their products from the 1930s have cases and movements similar to Gruen, why, because both used the same suppliers. Rolex largely became a company making their watches completely in house by eventually purchasing the suppliers for their cases, bracelets, movements and other components. Nothing wrong with that, I adore Rolex, but one should not forget they haven't not always been a "Manufacturer." Not to mention, some Cartiers are more finely finished than a Rolex (even when not using an inhouse movement). In addition, the Patek, AP, and VC, Breguet, and BP have all used outside sources for their movements, particular chronographs (Patek only recently started making their own chronograph movements). In addition, Omega, Breitling, and IWC until recently all relied heavily on Valjoux 7750s and ETA movements. While I understand the term manufacturer, and that today's collectors prefer watches use inhouse movements when possible, however I don't think that is a measure of a brand's importance in the world of horology, nor do I think you can say Cartier is not a watch manufacturer or is any less of a manufacturer ( than Rolex, AP, Breguet, VC etc), when many great companies still use movements made by outside sources.

    If you don't like Cartier I can accept that, but your statement about not considering them a manufacturer is silly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013


  2. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    You know, I certainly understand now where you are coming from when you speak so fondly of the Daytona. It has such a reassuring feel to it! It is definitely something I would purchase down the road. But I tried the whole run of modern Rolexes on today, and that was really the only one that sung to me. The maxi cases on the sub and GMT just did not really feel right. The GMT masked it better, but on my very flat wrist, it just kind of had a pancake feel to it. I really like the look of the Explorer I on me as well, but the hands have always kind of bothered me. The Daytona though... I really do get it. I have never been the strongest advocate of the Daytona, but I think I have changed my mind. I also like the Explorer II and Milgauss, but they definitely did not feel as consistent on the wrist.

    And +1 to whatever you just said about Cartier. Never get between the Dino and his Cartier :fistbump:

    Lovely picture by the way.
     


  3. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    missed a lot of good action today and too tired to properly read all the posts. :(

    wurger, ddd and dbln79, great sots.

    SF/TWAT meetup in nashville. myself, dereks and dcg. yes, that is me with teh donald duck tee shirt and a 112. :)

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013


  4. Omega Male

    Omega Male Senior member

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    Very nice. That's my favorite dial.
     


  5. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    I know exactly what you mean, and I came to the same conclusion. As much as I appreciate the quality of the current professional range, I don't like the updated ones on my wrist as much as their predecessors. But the Daytona offers every modern refinement when it comes to the bracelet and the movement, yet retains the original sports-Rolex charm with its classic case contours.

    When I first took an interest in this stuff, it was one of the last ones I could have imagined getting (mostly due to having read the BS that gets circulated on certain forums), but the more I got into the watch thing, the more I came around to Rolex in general and eventually the Daytona in particular. A big part of that was meeting an ex-Patek watchmaker a house party in 2009 who was wearing one with a black dial in steel. He had a very high regard for Rolex, and especially for their 4130 movement; hearing a legitimate expert's opinion drastically changed how I viewed the company. I'm still learning new things, especially from a watchmaker friend of mine who's just returned from their 3-week advanced course in Geneva where they covered the less-common models such as the Oysterquartz.

    I now understand why many experienced collectors (not that I consider myself a collector, I just like wearing 'em) have stated that they'd pick a Daytona of some sort if they had to choose only one watch. I like that it's not something that I have to coddle or stress about wearing, that it goes with anything, and that it's neither too simple nor too complicated — at least for my tastes. Also, it's just kind of fun to wear for some reason. It's probably because I'm rather easily amused, so I like the interactive element of the chronograph function. It's handy for timing espresso shots, for example...

    [​IMG]

    It's maybe not the best choice on a NATO...

    [​IMG]

    ...but the bracelet seems to work OK. Ahh, that's better:

    [​IMG]

    Looking forward to seeing yours if you end up getting one! :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013


  6. wurger

    wurger Senior member

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    Nice shot of the 3 classics
     


  7. wurger

    wurger Senior member

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    My grandfather has a TT Connie, my mum has a TT Connie, and I have a Omega Constellation Black Dial 35mm. That was before I purchased the DJ and SUB. :slayer:

    [​IMG]
     


  8. mimo

    mimo Pernicious Enabler

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    Same old, same old. Well I suppose this is relevant to Wurger and OM anyway: my mother bought this for my father in 1970. If you're sick of seeing it, say a little prayer for my new consultancy gig, and I'll get something else. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     


  9. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    That's rather generous of you to say; I didn't even get any entertainment out of it. But at least some good came of the link; I remembered to check whether Jack Forster — someone who does have writing talent — had any new articles. Lo and behold, I found this, which incisively summarizes everything that's wrong with the mindless pap that constitutes a typical watch article:
    [COLOR=0009FF]"I know of no other branch of consumer journalism [than watches] in which (and it gives me no pleasure to say this) the press has so thoroughly abdicated its responsibility to bring some level of critical acuity to the products it covers, and there are a number of reasons for this.[...] Now part of the problem — especially in the United States — is that the whole notion of watches as objects to be taken seriously on any level at all is largely an alien one. Virtually every editor-in-chief of every major consumer publication from the lowest to the highest knows very little about watches and watchmaking; individuals who in every other respect are models of intelligent discernment, who wouldn’t dream of approaching wine, or style, or cars, or architecture, from an uninformed perspective, look at watches with a nervous suspicion (often largely justified, it pains me to say) that not only are they themselves not terribly interested in watches, but their readers aren’t either. Thus we see high end mechanical watches –objects with over 500 years of history in Europe and the USA, and which for much of that time represented one of the most sophisticated syntheses of technology, science, and artistry in the entire course of human history –handled by already overworked fashion or accessories/jewelry editors; the level of sophistication is usually abysmal (all-black is in!) and coverage all too often consists of a single page of watches with only the most superficial relationship with each other piled one atop the other like so much fruit in a basket."[/COLOR] ​
    I was surprised to find the perfect antidote to the mind-numbing effect of AA's vacuous drivel within the same publication. What amazes me is that whoever is in charge of this stuff at Forbes presumably didn't experience any cognitive dissonance (or at least not enough to drop Adams' column) from running the "social peacocking" dreck right after Forster's call for writing standards, design education and discernment in the industry press. The article goes into more detail regarding the drought of journalistic credibility and reasoned critique in the watch industry; it's well worth reading in full. This is what real writing looks like: The Good, The Bad, And The Inexcusable: On Writing About Watches
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013


  10. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    I will come back to some of the previous statements later which I would like to answer, i.e. Belli's last two posts.

    And Mimo, I am always glad to see pictures of your watch, and of course I am hoping you land your consultancy gig! Good luck!

    But I have an important message: Happy Fourth of July!!

    [​IMG]

    Is there anything more American than blondes, unbridled patriotism, and women eating phallic shaped foods? I think not.

    Edit: to make picture of Kate larger.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013


  11. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Hi Nuke,

    I've always liked the Daytonas, even before I knew a lot about the movements, and well before they were popular. Sadly, I'cw never owned a manual wind model. However, its one of those watches that the longer you own it, the more you come to appreciate it. Its one of their "Professional models" that maintains the classic case shape and profile. I'm sure at some point I will break down and get a Rolex with the new wider shoulders, but I have to admit I don't think the wider shoulders/lugs are an improvement on most of their current sport/pro models. But enough about that. As I believe Belligero has stated, the Daytona is just such a versatile watch. Sure there maybe be events for which you may prefer a true dress watch, but short of those events the Daytona has you covered for everything. Its one of those pieces that looks good with casual clothes or a suit. And as mentioned, I beat the hell out of my first SS Zenith based movement model and it was dead on accurate for 5 years.

    I think when you are ready to pick up a Daytona, it will put a very large smile on your face, based on its solid performance, great looks, and versatility.
    An SF party!!! WTF, where are the invites??? Just kidding! Hope you guys are having a great time. Party on my SF bros![​IMG]
    Thanks. I've owned black and white dials on the older Zenith based models. The white dials are easier to read at a glance, but I've always favored black dials to white.
    Yes, possibly too generous. I guess I've come to expect that here in the US, unless the watch article is in a dedicated watch publication, or written by someone that regularly contributes to one...its all going to be fluff peppered with groundless opinion and statements that expose the writer's shallow knowledge of the topic. I guess I find the generalizations in those articles humorous, as I know that anyone with true experience would not write such nonsense.

    Yes, I've read some of Jack Forester's articles. He is certainly spot on with his discussion about journalists writing about watches.

    Also, I meant to mention, its interesting that a watchmaker (particularly one with Patek experience) holds the Daytona in such high regard as to choose one for himself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013


  12. Omega Male

    Omega Male Senior member

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    Still not big enough!
     


  13. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Great way to wish your fellow SFer's a Happy 4th! [​IMG]
    A very Happy 4th too all of our fellow SFer's

    To keep my wishes on topic...the best I can do is blue and white...no red (I don't have a JLC Reverso Rouge) so below is a white/silver an oysterquartz (since Belligero mentioned OQs) and a blue Jumbo.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013


  14. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    No doubt; discussing it with someone who had worked with their complicated vintage pieces (i.e. restoring or making parts from scratch for irreplaceable watches) said a lot more to me than any forum opinion I've encountered. Despite having a top job in watchmaking, he returned to Norway to work with intricate subsea equipment instead, which not only brought him back to his home country, but also probably pays a fair bit better.

    The friend I mentioned that stayed with watchmaking also wears a Rolex (a Sub LV); we recently had a few beers and I heard a bit about his three weeks in the no-cameras-allowed zone of their Geneva facility. Fascinating stuff. What I find funny is that he avoids watch forums completely, since it's not his idea of fun during spare time, and it's also more than a bit frustrating to read the uninformed nonsense on a typical watch-nerd hangout. This one is generally a different story, though.... in no small part due to your contributions. I find that regulars here tend to "get" the watch thing, which is why it's often a bit of an oasis to me. But yes, there's no denying that the regard of the watchmakers that I've met for Rolex has had a big influence on my perception of their products. My only regret is that I waited so long to finally get one!
     


  15. Omega Male

    Omega Male Senior member

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    Love the Jumbo!

    Got this on today. A/T Chronometer in the 41.5 mm size. Aesthetically I'm OK with the whole Sarlacc-mouth effect, but do think I might prefer wearing the 38.5 mm version.

    [​IMG]
     


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