The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Devoti]

I will have to say ceramic is an amazing material and definitely can see reasons why watchmakers are attracted to it. It has excellent machine qualities, it can be harder than steel, excellent abrasion resistance, it's not effected by temperature or humidity, can have very low electrical conductivity and it's non-magnetitc. Sounds like a dream material for a watchmaker but there is a serious degree of different types & level of ceramics. It's a shame the selected ceramic is cracking but I bet after some tweaking they can sort it out. Top ceramics is very expensive.

As a performance standpoint, ceramic can be very desirable but I'm not sure using ceramic would equate as a luxurious material for a watch but more as a performance material, I think it's safe to say that a $10K watch is a luxury item. Having said that, trying to introduce cutting edge materials is never cheap.

I totally agree with mimo. A $10k watch should be better on all accounts (looks, performance and quality) compared to a $1K watch but I guess that's very subjective.

I would hope that manufactuers would immediately warranty the cracked cases as that is far from normal or expected from a watch case.

 

[Devoti]

I agree Panerai is priced reasonably compared to it competitors.

 

[Newcomer]

I agree with you on warranting cracked cases. In my opinion, this is verging on a defective attribute of a watch, one that frankly could be resolved through litigation. If a car has a manufacturer's defect, or a bag has a defect, normally there is a recourse for that defect. These watches are self-proclaimed tool watches designed for wear in intense environments. The inability of these watches to withstand the abuse that they are advertised to be able to withstand is something of a misrepresentation.

 

[RogerP]

I will have to say ceramic is an amazing material and definitely can see reasons why watchmakers are attracted to it. It has excellent machine qualities, it can be harder than steel, excellent abrasion resistance, it's not effected by temperature or humidity, can have very low electrical conductivity and it's non-magnetitc. Sounds like a dream material for a watchmaker but there is a serious degree of different types & level of ceramics. It's a shame the selected ceramic is cracking but I bet after some tweaking they can sort it out. Top ceramics is very expensive.

As a performance standpoint, ceramic can be very desirable but I'm not sure using ceramic would equate as a luxurious material for a watch but more as a performance material, I think it's safe to say that a $10K watch is a luxury item. Having said that, trying to introduce cutting edge materials is never cheap.

I totally agree with mimo. A $10k watch should be better on all accounts (looks, performance and quality) compared to a $1K watch but I guess that's very subjective.

I would hope that manufactuers would immediately warranty the cracked cases as that is far from normal or expected from a watch case.

Ceramic has its virtues. Harder than steel? Yes. More abrasion resistant? Yes. More impact / fracture resistant..... um... did I mention how abrasion resistant it is?

 

[scottcw]

On auction with an estimate of around $2K...

Auction... http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/search.do?pg=3&iid=300556188&cid=37659&mode=detail


And a rare single red Sea Dweller...

Auction... http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2013/watches-n09002/lot.216.esthl.html

 

[in stitches]

i dont know a ton about the subject, but i dont think ceramic is a great material for cases. i think as accents, like bezels and inserts, and maybe as certain movement parts is where it is best used.

obviously there are many grades of ceramic but i think it is much harder to work on if anything does happen, if at all, and im not aware of steel cases actually cracking when dropped, like ceramic. ymmv.

 

[Devoti]

http://panerai.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-717/pi-5889558/ti-865153/s-0/

Just saw this on TPP. That is some serious watch damage! The owner was quoted a repair bill of $8,700! It really is kind of sad the type of end user service we are provided with these luxury gifts. Maybe I live in fantasy land, but service related woes seem all too common for what people spend on this hobby! This comment is of course not related to this incident entirely, but the industry as a whole.

What Wes_SS7 had to go through (imho) is totally unacceptable at customer service standpoint from a respected watch maker. Cracking a case under normal use should be no fault of the owner unless Panerai clearly spells this out while trying to sell the item, that it will easily crack. That gives the potential buyer the option to proceed buying the watch and knows they have to be cautious, then the onus falls on the watch buyer.

I would think watch companies have to respect the implied public perception and expectations that overwhelmingly watch cases don't crack (crystals yes), so not notifying the customer of this while trying to sell the watch should be considered misconduct/negligence of the watch maker and it's retailer. Then trying to charge the customer $8,700 for replacing the case is simply evil.

The poor guy is stuck deciding if he should spend another $8k on a watch he can't really wear.

 

[Axelman 17]

I would kill for a ceramic IWC 3705.

 

[no frills]

P.S. What would offend me about the $10k watch, is that I cannot say how it is substantially different from this $1k watch. Never mind the materials; I think there's a point when you buy from a large company that they have to be special enough, and different enough, to justify their marketing-budget-driven premium. And that ain't it. The base PAM might be...

There are a couple of threads in another watch-related forum discussing the merits (or lack of it) of Patek Philippe cufflinks. Now, I am a big Patek Philippe fan - for their watches. I cannot see myself spending $4,000 to $5,000 on a pair of PP-crafted cufflinks. Just can't. Can I distinguish much better craftsmanship in PP cufflinks versus others made in similar precious metals? No, really hard for me to say. Same reasoning above re: paying a premium for a timepiece that does not seem to be substantially different from cheaper ones.

Now, I may just be ignorant about the true merits of Patek Philippe cufflinks. If so, I am always open to learning new things.

I mean, I really have no say in the matter if you want to spend your hard-earned money for a pair of diamond-encrusted Nautilus cufflinks that compliment your 5712, like in the picture below (from PuristSPro).......



But, it's just not for me.

These $125 cufflinks actually fascinate me a bit more, especially since the movement actually works (I believe), if you wind the "crown":

 

[Hayward]

That sort of cross branding is a sure sign of loss of focus.

 

[in stitches]

i quite like the PP, AP and breguet cufflinks, i have seen.

id have to be balling pretty hard to get them, but if i was, i would.

 

[no frills]

That sort of cross branding is a sure sign of loss of focus.

Were you referring to my post about Patek Philippe cufflinks? I don't necessarily see it as loss of focus: Patek has been making jewelry to complement their timepieces for more than a hundred years. I can't imagine it constitutes (or that they expect it to become) a significant chunk of their revenue base.

It's just not for me.

 

[rnguy001]

People saying Panerai are overpriced baffle me. Expensive? Sure. Hard to call something overpriced when they continue to sell extremely well even at those "higher" prices. In fact they still continue to be one of the few watch brands that hold their value extremely well in the secondary market.

They would be overpriced if people weren't buying them. But since they sell well I would say they're priced exactly where OP intended.

 

[Hayward]

Lots of people can afford foolishness. Nothing necessarily wrong or unethical about foolishness, up to the point where it claims to be something else.

It makes absolutely no sense to make a watch case from ceramics. Bezels and crystals are likely to encounter abrasion before impact, so that's where you use the harder, more potentially brittle materials. The complete opposite is true of a watch case, particularly one meant for extraordinary environments. You would think that a company that specializes in making such watches would know this.

Of course that may all go out the window if we're talking some sort of ceramic composite, like in the Zenith EP Flyback Stratos or JLC Deep Sea Chron. Then it becomes understandable because it represents an effort to get the best of both worlds, even if it's an unproven one. But all the same they don't appeal to me, and it takes away from the luxury angle as well.

So are Paneristi grateful that the company finally deigned to make a base model that actually includes a sweep hand?

They just look silly. Perhaps not as silly as the Bell & Ross instrument watches, but silly nonetheless.

 

[Hayward]



Call me boring, but this impresses me. It's the sort of watch I'd take over others if forced to own only one. I'd prefer a Thunderbird but this is close enough. An understated purposeful look that fits with any occasion and highly useful. A countdown bezel would be even more useful.