The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    I think Dino has touched on this topic before I did, and he really put into words what I had felt for a while but never could quite crystallise into a coherent opinion. Dealers around Asia Pacific always tell me there is a waiting list for the Nautilus - at Bangkok it was apparently 3.5-4 years. Four years. Think about it. The price on the 2nd hand market accurately reflects this really high demand. But that demand is in a sense "artificial" - in essence they're doing a Hermes or de Beers: strangling supply on purpose to jack the price up and create a sense of exclusivity. I don't agree with it 100%, but on the other hand I can see why the brands do it. Why wouldn't they? You can make a heck of a lot more off a steel watch that objectively doesn't cost much to make, and increase brand prestige at the same time. And unlike de Beers, it's not as if people are digging Nautili (Nautiluses?) out of the ground. IMO a great part of the appeal of the Nautilus is that you want a sporty watch (common) that no one else has (rare). Same for the RO. Yes, you can appreciate the other tangible things about it (finish, design, movement, etc) but if for some reason tomorrow the MSRP on the Nautilus became $2k and Joe Sixpack on Main Street had one too demand would crash through the floor. To cast a cynical eye on it, it's really all about wankery. I just don't feel 100% comfortable that PP is actively encouraging the wanky bit of the equation, but c'est la vie - humans have been wankers for millenia, so I guess the die was cast a long time ago... ...after all, didn't I recently buy a watch with a red dial? I'll admit it, it does make me feel like a special flower. A rather wanky special flower. And gosh darn it, this wankery business does feel good. I can see why everyone does it. :embar: :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013


  2. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    [​IMG]
    I really like the 5711/A1 a lot, however the 5712/A1 might be my first choice of $$$ was not an object. The dial is the same beautiful color, I like the movment's use of a micro rotor, and more importantly, IMHO its the only Nautilus with complications that really work with the design. They don't over power it, its still a relatively slim case, and it adds some flavor to the Nautilus. I find the chronograph a version a clunky mess that moves too far from the the original design's sleekness which helped make the original so versatile, and the annual calendar just looks disjointed and unappealing.
    [​IMG] Stunning!
    Completely agree regarding Calatrava. While I like the new 5227, I just think Patek's pricing has gotten ridculous. They make a beautiful product but there is nothing that justifies where their prices have gone. Up until 10 years ago you could regularly buy a new Calatrava with at least a 30% discount and have a great watch for under $10K. I just don't see any true value in their product at the $20-25K range. However, with emerging markets such as China and India with a new generation of millionaires and billionaires swallowing up luxury goods, Patek's pricicing is unlikely to change until those markets are saturated also.

    As for Platinum vs. Gold, check the Vickers and Mohs Hardness ratings and you will see gold is much softer than Platinum. I think when you talk about gold alloys, you then have to be more specific regarding whether you are talking about 18K, 14K or 10K. 18K gold is only 75% gold, 14K is only 58.5% gold, and 10K gold... well that starts to seem like more scrap metal than gold, and will be relatively hard depending on what its alloyed with. Platinum is denser, more brittle, and more durable. I've seen guys with wedding bands that are 40+ years which have litterally worn through in some places. Platinum, I've seen bands that are 70 years old that are scratched up, but not worn through. Interestingly, when you scratch or dent platinum, it can be polished and you lose little or no metal, some molecules simply shifts their positions when scratch or polished, when you polish gold its so soft you actually lose some metal.
     


  3. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    The funny thing about the Nautilus was that 8-10 years ago no one cared about them. In fact plenty of Patek purists/collectors thought the Nautilus was beneath them...as Patek had almost always worked in precious metals and that they were busy chasing after AP clients making a RO/Genta derivative. I even heard one Patek collector say he thought it was ugly and the case shape reminded him of an old TV from the 1950s. It was a line of watches that was regularly discounted 30-35%.

    Fast foward a few years and then their are rumors Patek won't be making any more steel watches. This is around the time the Nautlilus 3712/A1 was released (I believe its 1mm smaller than the current 5712) and collectors start snapping them up. The 3712 was only made for a year or two and prices on them climb quickly from their original MSRP of $19,900. Then there is nothing for about a year and then 5712/A1 arrives, and the 5711/A1, and the rumors that they won't make any more SS watches is squashed. In the beginning 2ndary prices on the 5712/A1 were higher than new prices, but as supply caught up with demand, and Patek raised their prices to reduce flipping...well they are not as rare or tough to find. No doubt in some markets they are tougher to locate, it depends on how many units are allocated to certain countries or even regions of a country (and at times companies be it Patek, Rolex or others play the DeBeers game with supply and demand).

    However, on a trip to Las Vegas last October, between the 2 or 3 ADs there, every Nautilus model was available in steel. That doesn't detract from their beauty, or relative rarity compared to say Rolex, Breitling, Omega or IWC, however there rarity is not quite what many AD's in smaller areas with smaller allocations make them out to be. Also, I don't see the flipping I used to see for big profits that I used to see on 5712/A1s when they were relatively new and suppy was far short of the demand. I've even been into an AD or two on occasion and been offered a small discount.

    I really like the Nautilus line and would be tempted to get one someday, but do I think its another model where price has gotten out of hand.
     


  4. WhoKnewI

    WhoKnewI Senior member

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  5. culverwood

    culverwood Senior member

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    Not that it matters to me but I am curious about the reason for this.

    "Notice Regarding Importation into the United States of Corum, Franck Muller, Piaget and Rolex watches. We cannot arrange for the delivery of Corum, Franck Muller, Piaget, Tudor and Rolex watches into The United States. The buyer or designated agent may collect the property in the country of sale."
     


  6. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

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    Read this
    http://www.crownandcaliber.com/watches/rolex/how-do-you-import-a-rolex-watch-into-the-united-states/
     


  7. jhcam8

    jhcam8 Senior member

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    ............
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013


  8. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Permit me to play the devil's advocate here for a moment regarding the PtD. I kinda like it. It's very encouraging that the watch is staying at around 39 mm (the case appears to be very slightly wider than the steel and YG models), and I think it's going to be fairly understated, at least as far as top-of-the-range Rolex goes. €61550 is borderline taking-the-piss, but it's about what I expected considering that a platinum Day-Date costs about double what an 18K one does. C'est la vie. Although the colour scheme is a bit pastel-ey and the term "ice blue" is ...well.. lame, I'd sure wear it. In fact, I'd be fine with it as my only watch. Better than fine, actually; I'd be freaking ecstatic, as I could then retire from ever giving a crap again about watches. Considering that Rolex has only produced the Day-Date in platinum before this, there's some significance in making the Daytona first watch in the sports range with this metal, and I'm glad that my prediction came true as it suits the watch. Also, who the hell wouldn't want a Pt Oyster bracelet on the wrist? There are very few watches that are offered with a platinum bracelet, and extremely few that actually look good on one. I'm not sure whether they're my favourites, but I don't mind the colours, either. The brown looks great to me, and the Day-Date with that dial looks fine in person, though I might just be bypassing my critical reasoning faculties due to the metal. And what a metal! I have little interest in gold watches, but platinum is a different story. My favourite thing about it is that the more you wear it, the better it looks. It doesn't get rounded-off like gold or somewhat mangy like steel can sometimes get — it develops a subtle lustre over time that's unique to the metal. It's very hard yet incredibly ductile, it doesn't lose any weight from wearing... the stuff absolutely kicks ass. Admittedly, for that cost, you have some tremendous options — the vast majority of which offer something other than a mass-produced chronograph movement, as stellar as the 4130 is. However, I feel limited when I'm wearing something with a less-robust movement. While I'm not particularly rough on watches, and my more complicated stuff has been fine so far even in the Norwegian drinking environment, simpler is often better. In (very roughly) that cost ballpark, I'd be more than a bit uncomfortable about wearing something as intricate as a Datograph, which is undeniably a great watch with a phenomenally beautiful movement inside. But the approval of self-appointed WIS-types ain't everything; I have never called myself one and I'd be tempted to slap someone who did. Seriously, though, there's undeniably some appeal to a watch you can wear every single day of your life, under any reasonable circumstances, without having to stress about it. Plus the thing is waterproof. You could easily use it just as you would a steel watch. I can't think of any other in that rarefied price category that I'd be comfortable with having on my wrist 24/7. While I'm not a fan of watches that are heavy simply due to bulk, the slim Daytona in platinum is going to be formidable. The DD II is about 280 g, and I'd expect a PtD to be at least that. The thing is going to be an absolute beast, and I am most definitely looking forward to trying one on! It would be more than a bit foolish of me to buy it at this stage in my life, but I'm sure that there are plenty that will, and not all of them will be doing it out of ignorance of the other options.
    Thanks — I aim to please!
     


  9. DerekS

    DerekS Guyliner

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    ^^you raise some damn good points here.
     


  10. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    I wish I'd seen this before I submitted my earlier post. Spot-on, although my understanding of platinum's properties is that it's not at all brittle. Its combination of hardness and ductility is phenomenal, and makes the metal uniquely desirable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013


  11. jhcam8

    jhcam8 Senior member

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    [quote name="kungapa" url="/t/36253/the-watch-appreciation-thread/20160#ptage
    I was posting from the - rather simplified - point of view of some potential customers for these Rolexes. Rolex has the unique situation of almost being a proprietary eponym synonymous with high-end, expensive luxury watch. For people with no interest in watches and more sense than money, the type of signal owning a Rolex sends is highly desirable. It can be understood by a lot of people in the general public, whereas a Lange or even a Patek doesn't communicate the same thing.[/quote]

    SEE BELOW - I did this on my phone, which often confuses me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013


  12. Flake

    Flake Senior member

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    I had the original version of that watch, the 228, done as a limited run of 100 for their Florence boutique. Stunning blue in person.
     


  13. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Thanks, Derek. To put it bluntly, a platinum Daytona is what some would call (and wear as) a "fuck-off" watch, and I'm fine with that. It has the capacity to be something other than a simple money bludgeon, though, due to its reasonable size and platinum's tendency to go a bit matte with use. It can still stand on its own as a beautiful and even semi-stealthy watch once you take away the whole Rolex thing. It's all in how you wear it.
     


  14. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    cant speak for all the alloys, but i have spoken to many jewelers and read much about it, all of which said plat was harder. as well, i have held a great deal of plat and 18k jewelry in my hand. i can easily bend 18k jewelry with my hand, plat, not so. much harder. i am not saying there is no plat alloy that is not more pliable than a certain 18k alloy, but standard 950 plat is far harder than 18k gold.

    now, by softer, you may also be referring to hardness, as in scratch resistance. in which case plat is very easily scratched, quite possibly more so than 18. but as far as bending it and molding it, as far as i know from working with it, and from hearing from jewelers, and from reading about it, plat is harder than 18k.

    also, dino, 10k is 41.7% gold, or at least it is supposed to be. much of it is 39.5%.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013


  15. jhcam8

    jhcam8 Senior member

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    Until you take a Patek, BP, Glasutte, AP... - any of which can be beautiful- in for repair & cough up 5K, maybe you start thinking that a nice, reliable Rolex is the ticket.
     


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