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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Thanks rnguy.
    Hi Apropos, excellent information about customizing a JLC. Although, I'm not a "Reverso e-buddy" yet, I hope to be at some point. [​IMG] I have looked at JC Randell's site a few times just to get an idea of what can be done with a Reverso. I was unaware that the "Enamel/ coloring" of a SS Reverso is basically plastic. Also, I had no idea what the starting cost was to have an enamel piece although I knew the prices skyrocket depending on the complexity of the request.

    Also, interesting to note that you find the JC Randell engraving to be of higher quality than a custom Le Sentier engraving. I know a guy that has a US 1931 Tribute and he is planning to send it to Le Sentier for engraving (as he is saying why send it to a 3rd party). However, Randell has a reputation that would seem difficult to match, much less surpass. You can really see a lot of depth and workmanship from the samples on his site, while I can't say I've seen many samples from JLC and the few I saw were not very complex.

    Yes, W1551551 is the platinum version of my Tank. I saw the platinum and the rose gold side by side in a Cartier boutique when they first were released. The platinum version was beautiful and it really takes on a very different character. It was very cool and sleek, yet elegant in a white metal, while the rose added some warmth. In the end, for me in terms of color, cost, and availability, the rose was the right choice...and actually was the only choice at that point. The one I purchased was the last new version available in North America (my nearest boutique had sold their example almost a year before I decided to get one, and showed me on their computer only 1 unsold example existed, which they eventually had transferred in for me to view).

    I tend to choose non-round rose gold cases for dress watches as most of my daily wearers are round and white metal, so I like something completely different. After wearing round cased white metal watches much of the week, putting on something in rose gold feels a little dressier to me...kind of like switching from casual shoes to fine dress shoes. I think the only non-round white metal watch I've looked at and tried on is the Reverso. Some of their examples have looked good in rose or yellow, but for some reason its a design I often find much more appealing in a white metal.
     


  2. Coldcava

    Coldcava Senior member

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    Apropos - Thanks so much for the detail.. I am always amazed at the knowledge base on Style-forum, and your response is in the upper echelon..

    So, with the preface that a gold Reverso with another $20k of custom enameling is out of my price range, and the coloring on the stainless steel models doesn't measure up, you're preference with a stainless model is to stick to engraving and then depending on the level of detail/customization, look at JC Randell as an alternative to JLC's process. Sounds like if its non standard and engraved with JLC not only pricing but time frame is issue to consider, (not that I'm rushing into this)..

    Again, great info. Thank you..
     


  3. Coldcava

    Coldcava Senior member

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    I know that there are some hard-core people on here with very specific definitions in regards to this next question..

    JLC Reverso - 'Dress' watch?? (yay or nay?)
     


  4. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    I'd say most Reversos meet my definition of a dress watch, and would look FAR better with a suit than the great proliferation of big clunky sports watches weighing down the wrists of business professionals. The Reverso defines the last vestiges of classic JLC design, now that the company has made a strong committment to the special forces / black ops / covert incursion / badass mall-ninja design ethos.
     


  5. Moloch38

    Moloch38 Senior member

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    Wow, that totally floored me. Amazing watch, I've never seen one that beautiful.
     


  6. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    I think at best this is a really bizarre comment to make, and the very last bit is an over generalisation that crosses into pure bizarro territory. :spew: I assume you are referring to the Master Compressor line. Look at all the models JLC has released over the last 2 years - not a single Master Compressor model. The best received new model of 2012 was the Rouge, the best of 2013 probably the new Master Perpetual or the Jubile - all 3 are dress watches; not exactly a marked change of direction for JLC into he-man territory. The Master series has a long history, the Atmos even longer, invalidating your point about the Reverso range representing "the last vestiges of classic JLC design", and think about all the tribute models JLC has released over the last decade - the polaris 65, the polaris 68, the deep sea, the deep sea chronograph, the 1931 reverso, memovox, the upcoming "true" geophysic, etc True, the JLC-Navy Seals watches are regrettable collaborations at best, but I would hardly call 2 models in total out of nearly a 100 mens watches in the entire JLC oeuvre "a strong committment to the special forces / black ops / covert incursion / badass mall-ninja design ethos". Perhaps you might have confused JLC with IWC? Now that is a once storied watch company that is fast headed toward Omega territory - just look at their new releases this year for their Ingenuier line. Pathetic, sad, stuff.
    Depends on the Reverso. Reverso Squadra? No. Reverso Classic? Maybe. Reverso GT? Likely. Reverso Tribute in SS? Not exactly. Reverso Tribute in PG? Yes.
    You are most welcome. As to your question - yes, more or less. I can only speak for myself when I say that sometimes less is more and that I would much rather have a superbly executed monochrome engraving than an impressively colourful machine engraving on a Reverso. And when you think about it, it's not often that a customisation can elevate a humble/humbler watch (like say an entry level SS Reverso Classic) to the next level. And that there are very few examples of truly world class pure artisanal craft that you can access for less than $2000, and then pass it on to your kids.
    That is just my opinion, and I would encourage everyone to see examples in the flesh (metal) and judge for themselves.
    Makes perfect sense. As usual. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013


  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, dead-on. However, as disappointed as I have been with IWC's design direction over the past seven or eight years, I think it's bit harsh characterizing them as headed in the direction of Omega. While the aesthetics have suffered, losing authenticity and becoming far more consumer trend oriented, they have put a lot of work into their in-house movements. Mechanically, they are still far superior to Omega. The finishing is not in the frou-frou Geneva style typical of Patek, Vacheron, and the like, but it is just as fine in its own Germanic way, and generally much better than JLC, which is more of bargain version of the aforementioned style.

    Still, the watches are generally ugly. Every watch since my Portuguese 5001, which I consider a high water mark, has been a big fail. The bastardization of the pilot line is particularly egregious--in particular the Bell & Ross-ification of the Mark series and the creation of the Top Gun doppelchronograph. If we could go back to 2004/2005 IWC aesthetics with their current movements, it would be glorious.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013


  8. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    I agree with the second part, but for the first part I think that comparing the finishing style for PP/VC/JLC vs IWC is comparing creatures which are so different that only the broadest, vaguest and thus least useful comparisons can be made. I think it is more instructive to compare like with like, and agree with your point about the movement finishing at JLC being of a somewhat lesser standard in general than PP/VC. To be fair though I don't think JLC has ever attempted to proffer their finishing as a strength, nor have a majority (or even significant minority) of WISes ever acknowledged it to be such.

    There was this interesting interview with the IWC CEO I read recently in some watch magazine where he made a comment - something along the lines of the "cool watch" of yesterday is the "asshole watch" of today, so IWC would avoid caving to trends. Or something like that. I couldn't help but wince at the complete lack of self knowledge. I don't think I've seen a watch company so fully and systematically self destruct each major line of watches that it carries, but I guess IWC is German so even their disasters are thorough and well engineered.

    I also really really dislike the "watches for men" tagline that nearly all the IWC ad copy has taken up recently - oddly enough men attracted to 46mm "watches for men" tend overwhelmingly to actually be... pricks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013


  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    The "watches for men" tagline has been around since at least 2004. It was actually quite controversial at the time. I happen to like it, as it captures the right spirit of a serious tool watch by being direct and to the point.

    Of course the finishing is of a different animal, versus the Geneva school, but I've seen comparisons and read analysis by experts. My eyeballs also did their own homework. The consensus seems to be that the quality and precision of the finishing is as good as anything else out there, but is distinctively more "engineered" in appearance. Thus, you will see no beveled edges, but the perlage and cotes de Geneve are as fine as can be. JLC finishing is not as nice, though an undiscerning eye would be forgiven for believing it to be fancier.

    For an interesting reference, Lange finishing was taught to the newly re-birthed company by IWC watchmakers. Decoration can be more or less lavish, but quality of execution is a separate matter. IWC could do what Lange does, but it would be the wrong style for the watches they make.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013


  10. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Well you would know about pure bizzaro territory, that much is certain.
     


  11. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Thank you my man. When I get around to having a black strap made up I'll post up that combo as well. So far I find I'm liking the watch better on a strap than on the bracelet - can't believe it took me a year to give it a try. The case shape seems to stand out more without the end links from the bracelet wedged between the lugs.

    Coldcava - was there a particular Reverso you were considering, and did you want it to fill a dress watch role?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013


  12. Coldcava

    Coldcava Senior member

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    Yes to both... Needed something to fill the dress watch role, and was looking at either the Grand Taille or the Calendar.
     


  13. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    IWC is Swiss, not German.

    And to be perfectly honest, I think that IWC in a way is often more offensive than Omega. The new Ingenieur's retail for $6,500, and have piss poor AM ability and are modified ETAs. The new 8500 Omegas, in my most humble of opinions, are some of the best watches out there for the money. The 8500 movement is beautifully finished, is supposedly very reliable, and has some very interesting additions. Yes, the IWC Port 5001 is superior to the AT 8500, but we are also talking about double the price range. To be honest, I think that IWC is "Paneraizing" themselves rather than "Omegaizing" (disclaimer: I am OK with Panerai doing this, as I think that their designs speak for themselves). Personally, design choices aside, I like where Omega is going. I think the previous gen PO is beautiful, and I think they generally have some lovely designs out there (Speedy, AT).

    And IWC being better finished than JLC? I guess I just disagree with that. You say that it is supposed to appear engineered, and thus there is no bevelled edges or anglage. However, anglage and beveling is incredibly purposive--it reduces friction in the parts.

    I guess I am a bit of an IWC hater. I wish that IWC would take back their designs even further, before the 2004-2005 days.

    I yearn after the IWC Minute Repeater... so hawt.

    Just having some fun here, it is nice to have a little :foo: in the thread.
     




  14. david3558

    david3558 Senior member

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    Similar thoughts from me here, but I'm a big fan of the Ingenieur refresh.
     


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