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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    I suppose I had to agree with you on something, eventually. [​IMG]
     
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  2. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    JLC movements are fantastic. As for looks, I'm not a fan of the JLC Navy Seal Dive watches. They sort of remind of of that period when Zenith was making those clunky sports watches. When I think JLC, I think Reverso or Master Hometime, or other watches that have a more refined look. For sports watches I'd go elsewhere, but that's just my 2 cents. If you think its a keeper go for it. However, if you are prone to trading things in I'd look elsewhere as I'm just not sure its a piece that will retain a good level of resale value, or it might be something to consider getting pre-owned.
     
  3. Keith T

    Keith T Senior member

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    Superfluous: I'd like to helpful, but I've not had mine serviced yet ....I assume you're talking about sending it to RSC?

    From what I've read you're probably looking at a couple months wait time, but if you live there in DFW perhaps you can save yourself some shipping and insurance by hand-delivering it. Rolex gives the below address/contact info on their website:


    "Your Service Centre

    Rolex Building
    2651 North Harwood
    Dallas 75201
    Texas
    United States

    tel: +1 214 871 0500

    fax: +1 214 871 2767

    Mon-Fri: 9:00am - 5:00pm"


    As for any difference in steel vs. gold, I think it's more commonly requested to NOT do any polishing/re-finishing on cases and bracelets for sport models, but obviously that's your decision to make... many collectors favor the "patina'd look" and would only want the movement oiled, gaskets replaced, etc.

    Likewise, unless there's some specific repairs needed or requested, I wouldn't suspect much pricing difference for a regular service due to the movement being Zenith ....Rolex should treat it as if it were its own.

    Someone please correct me if your understanding is different-- there are several Daytona owners that are active on this thread. Probably someone could give you a decent estimate of the cost as well. You might also check out the appropriate threads on TZ or RolexForums.
     
  4. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    Some good stuff posted lately gents. Just came back from a small vacation, and have enjoyed playing catch up. Unfortunately, it looks like I will be settling down within the next couple of weeks, but on the plus side I will be contributing here with more frequency.

    But in response to your question, Mr. Mimo--I think that the Orange Monster would be an excellent choice for a nice beater watch. My simple answer to which version is the black one with white teeth if you are getting the newer version, and the orange monster if you are getting the older. Honestly though, I do not think you can go wrong. Personally, I prefer the older one aesthetically, but they are incredibly similar.

    For another outstanding PMW, take a look at the Seiko SKX007, and really anything from Orient's line. I love my Orient Mako. It is a cheapy but a goody, and it has successfully withstood two years of being my "going out" watch. Let me just say, it has seen some serious, serious abuse.

    Also, no need for apologies. Personally, I love PMW discussions. If anything, it is just unfortunate that they are lumped into the PMW category. A lot of these watches are incredibly well made, can take anything that you throw at them, and keep surprisingly good time. They may not be superbly finished, but they can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. I think many are horologically interesting enough to be owned in their own right as well.

    And to sway you even more on the Monster, here is one of my reviews:

    Backstory:


    Alright, so, what brought me to the Monster? I think the same thing that brings EVERYONE to this watch. Prior to visiting WUS, I had never heard of the Monster. But as soon as I started visiting the site, I kept on seeing it over and over and over again. Pop into a WRUW thread—BOOM, half a dozen Orange Monsters. And to be honest—I hated it. I really, really did not understand it. It was orange, it had a crazy metal shroud, it was busy, it had a strange scalloped bezel… oh yeah, and it was orange. Before I came to WUS, I had very little experience in watches. My only watch I had ever worn was a Swiss Army watch that my parents bought me for my 16th birthday. That watch died shortly thereafter, as sixteen your olds are dumb. I actually came here to look up prices on a PP Calatrava with a hobnail bezel [which was grossly more than I anticipated—and a piece I am not even remotely interested in anymore]. After my first ‘introduction’ with the Monster, I shelved it. I purchased a Damasko DC56. A few months later I sold that. Then I picked up a JLC MC. Then, needing a beater, I decided to act on a bit of a whim. I thought to myself that all these positive reviews could not ALL be wrong. So I sprung for a Monster. That JLC MC is gone. The Monster is still here. I have now owned the Monster for exactly one and a half years. It is my oldest watch. Here are my thoughts.

    Pros:


    Case:


    The case is, in my opinion, the reason to buy a Monster. As you all know, the case is a great mixture of brushed and finished surfaces. But less talked about is the dichotomy between rounded and angled surfaces. The round scalloping provides a nice contrast to the sharp edges of the shroud and lugs. The crown protector also is incredibly sharp, while the crown is nice and rounded. By alternating ‘rounded’ curves and ‘sharp’ edges, the watch is able to look industrial without looking too harsh. Of course, it is also incredibly comfortable. The sharp edges could be sharper, but that could potentially risk comfort. As a functional watch, I think that comfort trumps finishing.

    The lugs are very successfully implemented. They are very short and make the watch incredibly wearable. My wrist is under 7”, and I have absolutely NO problems wearing this watch. The Monster is not nearly as monstrous as the name might suggest! The lugs are also very interesting. As with everything on this watch, they are very unique. The lugs are implemented into the shroud which protects the bezel. It should also be noted that the combination of all these features visually makes the height of the watch much more manageable. It is a fairly thick watch, but all the different levels, surfaces, and finishing techniques really make it more manageable.

    Another interesting aspect of the case is the asymmetric shroud. The shroud on the top of the watch extends until it is parallel with the 10:00 and 2:00 markers. On the other hand, the shroud on the bottom starts parallel to the 8:00 marker, and extends past the bezel to guard the crown. A nice and functional element of the watch that is very well integrated with the case.

    And lets not forget the heft of the watch. This is one solid chunk of steel, and feels very well made.

    Dial:


    The dial, like the rest of the watch, is quirky. It is like a super maxi dial, it has big markers, big hands, and of course this leads to great visibility. As everyone knows, this watch has torch-like lume. On a different watch, the dial could potentially be described as ugly. However, when you take the whole picture into consideration, it just makes sense. This watch has a wonderful ability to do that.

    Crown Position:

    As you can tell from the pictures, the crown is situated at the 4:00 marker. The rationale behind its location at 4:00 is that it is more comfortable, since it does not dig into your wrists, and that it is more convenient [at least I think this is a stated rationale J]. Well, I have to say, that regardless of whether these are the actual reasons, they work as advertised. For such a sizeable watch, it is immensely comfortable. The crown has never dug into my hand / wrist, and I find the location very convenient. The location at 4:00 is also kind of quirky—and I like quirky. The position and implementation of the crown get a big plus from me. Once again, it is very impressive to have a watch with this heft and size with so much wearing comfort. The crown stem is also nice and sturdy, and inspires confidence. It is a little bit wobbly, but for two positions, it is pretty solid. I have definitely experienced much wobblier.

    Bracelet:

    I am not going to belabor this point. But let us just put it this way. From a design perspective, I would put this darn bracelet against any. Don’t get me wrong, there are bracelets that are finished better. This one is no slouch, but it is not comparable to Rolex, Omega, and the like. But from purely a design and comfort perspective, this bracelet is as good as any other I have experienced. It is flexible, which adds to its comfort. It is also very original—I can’t recall many other bracelets that look similar. Also, let us not forget that it has solid endlinks, which is great for a watch in the sub-$200 price category. I have heard it before—this watch is worth purchasing for the bracelet alone—and I could NOT agree more.

    Aesthetically, it is a great match to the case and the watch in general. It is nice and chunky, so that it does not feel insubstantial, and it takes design cues from the rest of the case. I think there are very few bracelets on any watch that are as harmonious with the design as the Monster is. And this is something that I really tend to hone in on. For example, let’s take the forum darling and one of my favorite watches, the Omega Speedmaster. I love my Speedy. I love its bracelet. But I do not see that bracelet and automatically think that it was made for the Speedy. Same with the Planet Ocean, and tons of other watches [sorry for picking on Omega, they are just the first watches that are coming to mind]. On the other hand, lets think about the AP RO. That bracelet just meshes so well with the personality of that watch. It was made for the watch. It is not just a bracelet—it is an extension of the watch itself. The Monster follows in the footsteps of the RO in this regard. This bracelet was made for this watch, and it is clearly evident. Seiko could have copped out here, but they really went the extra mile. Kudos to them.

    Originality:

    There are a lot of watches out there. And there are a finite amount of ways in which to design a diver. At the very least, you would certainly think that is the case when looking at the sub-$1,000 watches out there. Well, this is one of the watches that breaks the mold. From the shroud to the bezel to the handset to the lume to any number of other features, this watch just looks and feels like NOTHING else on the market. However, this watch also successfully integrates Seiko DNA, particularly with the shroud. I really do not know enough to comment on the genealogy of the watch, but it is pretty clearly a Seiko design.

    In addition, I think it bears mentioning that the originality of the watch is not superfluous—the watch is not original for the sake of being original. Rather, all the original features greatly contribute to the watch’s functionality as a dive watch. The shroud protects the bezel from being accidentally moved. The maxi dial and hands contribute to underwater visibility. The shroud protects the crown from being damaged. There are very few design details that do not contribute to the wearability of the watch.

    Cons:

    Bezel:

    You know, I just think that a 120-click bezel is silly, especially on a watch that has a good deal of play with the bezel. More often then not the 120-click bezel causes me to go a little too far forward or back. Who really times things down to the half-minute anyways? I mean this is not a big complaint at all, I really do not mind it, but I would prefer the bezel to just have 60 clicks.

    The bezel also has a little bit of play. If you are a diver, I understand that this can be a bit of a no-no. However, the play seems to be mitigated when you are under water—it is quite a bit more difficult to turn the bezel when submerged. Additionally, the shroud mitigates the chance of the bezel moving accidentally.

    Dial:

    Not a very big fan of the color of the lume on the indices. Also not a very big fan of the day and date combination. I do not mind the white background of the date, but I think that orange and black would have made more sense. Perhaps if the lume was white it would be different; but the combination of green lume, black text, white date background… well, it may be a little bit much. Also, why on earth is the day of the week necessary? I am of the belief that the day of the week is very rarely necessary on a watch. And the day of the week on a dive watch is without purpose and is inharmonious. I am picking nits here, but with this watch being so cohesive, I wish that Seiko went all the way.

    Hardlex:

    I would prefer sapphire. I have a fairly large gouge on the hardlex. That was also my fault though. The hardlex dispute can go on and on and on forever, so I am just going to avoid it.

    Crown:

    The lack of a signed crown is unfortunate. But then, I do not really care for a signed crown if it is not very sharply engraved. If I had to choose between the two, I would probably choose the former [i.e., the Orient logo in the crown just looks sloppy]. Also, let us not forget. This is, at the end of the day, a dive watch—it is a functional instrument. All that really matters is that it is able to be gripped well. Still, the devil is in the details, and it would be nice for them to make the crown a little snazzier.

    Controversial Aesthetics:

    There is no doubt that the Orange Monster has some serious wrist presence. Heck, if you look up “wrist presence” in the dictionary, there should be a picture of the Monster. Unfortunately, one of the side effects of an original design is that it is, by its very nature, atypical. I think over on WUS we kind of get tunnel vision when it comes to what is an ‘appropriate’ or ‘normal’ watch to wear. All of us understand the Monster. To the uninitiated, however, the Monster is a hell of a strange animal. Now, I guess this is not a con if you do not care about what other people think, or if you work in an environment where these kinds of things do not matter. But this is a watch that does stir opinions. Do I care? Not at all. But the watch is relegated to weekend, lounging, or athletic wear. All I am trying to say is that if your goal is conformity, you may be better off with a Mako or with an SKX007 or something of that ilk.

    After-Market Strap Issues:

    This con is HEAVILY mitigated by the fact that the bracelet is the business. However, one minor issue I have is the dearth of good aftermarket straps. I have seen some that have been successful on WUS, some that have been less than successful. The lug width on the watch is only 20mm. However, the bracelet looks much larger due to being extended at the lugs. Thus, near the lugs the bracelet is probably closer to 24mm.

    Final Comments:

    For those that do not own the watch—BUY ONE! You will not regret it. It is just so well made, so handsome, so original. It is a modern classic. I am thinking about picking up a few more to be honest, and just keeping it for a rainy day. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
     
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  5. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    :fence: :slapfight: :stirpot:

    ... :inlove:
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  6. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    great post, newC. if anyone was going to convince me on this, it would be you. but sadly, i dont see myself being a seiko monster owner. no hate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  7. Keith T

    Keith T Senior member

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    [​IMG]



    Not a big fan of the new shark's teeth dial, though....much prefer the older look. And I wouldn't worry about hand-winding, mimo...that 7s26 takes off running with half a shake.

    +1 on the great review by Newcomer.

    There's a reason it's the gateway drug into watch collecting!
     
  8. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    Haha the aesthetics of the watch are definitely polarizing, there is no doubt about that. Glad you enjoyed the post bud.


    Yes, just want to echo the winding efficiency. Seiko has that magic lever winding mechanism, and honestly, the thing starts up pretty much immediately. The movement also seems to be very durable. I have dropped my Mako and Monster repeatedly, from 4-5 feet, and they still keep perfect time. These things are tanks.

    And in regards to the JLC thing--I agree with the posts above who talk about JLC being in its own little market. JLC can certainly compete with the big dogs, particularly their Duometre collection. However, they seem to be very content in their price bracket. I think that JLC's base models offer the best bang for your buck, especially when you compare them to their competition. You can pick up a new Reserve de Marche or MUT Moon for $8,000, or maybe a little bit less. And you are getting a whole lot of watch for that money.
     
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  9. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Its been a while since I had a Daytona serviced. Last I heard its about $1,000. The Zenith based movement is actually more complicated to work on, but do not fret if you have a Zenith based watch. I believe Rolex figures why bother to cut owners of inhouse movement Daytonas a break and charge them the same amount. When my father and I had a steel Daytona and an all gold Daytona serviced at the same time, there was about an $80 difference in price. What for, I have no idea, but that was about 10 + years ago.

    As for turn around time, it depends on how busy they are. I've generally been quoted 8-12 weeks, but I've gotten watches back in 6 weeks if they are not too busy.
     
  10. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    +1 Spot on Stitch!
    [​IMG]

    Great review Nuke, you make a very convincing case for going with a Monster...even if its not my thing.
     
  11. mtc2000

    mtc2000 Senior member

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  12. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    Ahhhhh yes. Thats a beaut.
     
  13. Wes Bourne

    Wes Bourne Senior member

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    I love me some cheap Japanese auto divers and I'm not ashamed of it. Atm, I have a SKX007, Citizen NY2300-09G (Off Black dial w/ Pepsi bezel) and an Orient Ray Raven (had to scratch the Black watch itch). And I just got a SKX009 Pepsi (fyi, the dial is actually Midnight Navy, not Black). Currently waiting on some parts to have the SKX007 modded to resemble those old SM300 with the big triangle marker.
     
  14. shawndo

    shawndo Well-Known Member

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    I think 3 is the right number for me, Dressy, Summer, Winter

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Kaplan

    Kaplan Senior member

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    A similar threesome:

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Is that the Mark XV Kaplan? I just love - LOVE - that style of hands from IWC.
     
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  17. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Here's a threesome of mine (forgive the crappy cellphone photo):

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Chuckie Egg

    Chuckie Egg Senior member

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    JLC has a similar problem with its sports watches as Rolex does with its dress watches (Cellini).
     
  19. Kaplan

    Kaplan Senior member

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    It is.

    Obviously the angle of the photo distorts the size of the watches, but those hands (along with the numerals all along the dial) makes it the easiest to read at a glance, even though it's the smallest of the three (38 vs 40 vs 44mm).
     
  20. Wes Bourne

    Wes Bourne Senior member

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    I'd probably get one with the 4R36 movement. Iirc, this Dutch seller is well regarded on the forums and he has a bunch of the older 7s26 and newer 4R36 : http://www.monsterwatches.eu/eu/index.php/home

    You can also check if any of these ebay sellers have what you want (I've bought from all 3):

    pokemonyu
    Timewares
    Premierworld
     
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