1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. plk7

    plk7 Member

    Messages:
    10
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    mimo -

    happy to be of service. as i think you might suspect, my wrists are indeed quite small. around 6" give or take a little. if i could change anything about my watch, i would shorten the lugs a bit (if that were possible). they don't quite overhang my wrists, but they come close (that's something that would usually be a deal-breaker for me, but i just like the watch overall). i think the 35mm orion has a lug-to-lug measurement of around 44mm. in general, i think nomos offerings wear bigger due to the thin bezel, and the longer lugs. i have handled the orion (at an authorized dealer when i bought the tangente), but it's been several years. you mention a flat case, but i think at least the crystal of the orion 35mm curves to 'match' the lugs. i recall reading that the crystals of the 38mm series are flat, though. i personally would have been happy owning the orion 35mm, but as i mentioned earlier, i like the ruggedness (read: increased wr) of the tangente sport. i'm still not familiar with forum rules regarding posting outside links, so i'll pm you a link with photos of what i believe are a 7" wrist with the 38mm series. by the way, i can't quite make out the watch in your avatar. would you please share? thanks and best wishes.
     
  2. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    

    that is awesome, but you are a dick for holding out. ;)


    so then 3 it is! :)


    you are teh missing out, bro.
     
  3. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

    Messages:
    3,662
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Hi Ben,

    Your have confused the date of Breguet's establishment with Blancpain. It is Blancpain that was established in 1735. The distinction of being the oldest watch brand relative to VC is that they have been continuously producing watches since 1755. Blancpain was closed and not making any watches for many years and then Jean-Claude Biver and a partner bought the rights and revived the brand.

    As for independents, some offer great workmanship but whether they build companies that survive, and one can easily count on them for service or parts years from now often remains to be seen. Some do well and remain independent, some don't (consider Daniel Roth). They made some very special watches in the 1980s and 1990s. Does anyone even care about the original Daniel Roth watches anymore? The brand and the watches are more like a foot note in horology.

    I think history and heritage should not be the most important factor, but its something to consider. Just to keep things simple, if someone buys a Rolex they know the company isn't going to be bankrupt tomorrow. They know there is a parts supply for many years to come and service centers all over the world, In addition, because their watches like the Sub have had a strong following, those watches will retain a reasonably strong resale value. If someone buys a watch from a relatively unknown brand, with no history, and not much in terms of service centers and distribution...if something happens to the founder, there is a strong likelihood the brand is going to fall apart and there will be no after sales service, and the watch will have little resale value.

    Again, not the end all be all, but just saying I think history can indicate something a bit more important than just a cherry on top.
    Very interesting question Nuke.

    I think people can do a 180 about a watch, a brand, or even a collection. I think it happens more commonly than you would think. I have a friend that collected almost exclusively vintage VCs (he had nearly 40 spanning from the 1940s to present). One day he decided he had too many they weren't getting that much wrist time, so he liquidated most of his collection and bought a tourbillon from an independent. However, little by little he has been buying a few modern VCs. So for him, what changed was the need to have lots of watches. He now believes in having a few very good watches that get more wrist time.

    A friend of mine used to say he would never buy a Rolex. He lives in NYC, and says they are too common, everyone has one, and that it would attract too much attention. He bought a Speedmaster, a Zenith, some Breitlings, etc. Then after about 10 years of saying he'd never buy a Rolex he fell for an bought a white dial 16570 Explorer 2 with red hand. He said his biggest regret is not buying it sooner when it would have cost him less money.

    My own personal experience is that years ago I was a huge fan of VC. However, I have found that the direction of many offerings from their current collections just doesn't do as much for me. So it has been years since I purchased one. Perhaps what happened was the company's designs changed and I didn't change with them.

    I'm not sure if I have ever gone from hating a watch design to liking it or wanting it. I think I could say that I grew to appreciate watches that didn't initially make much of an impression on me, and that maybe my tastes evolved.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
    2 people like this.
  4. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Senior member

    Messages:
    17,228
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    B - not sure how feasible, but since you are bringing a new brand to the world of watches, and hoping for a strong online presence, may I suggest hiring or outsourcing the photography of your watches. Someone who has Ming Thein's skill set would be good. Or, take a look at a photobox setup (like a white box) and go from there on your own. I don't think your current photos are doing your baby the justice it deserves.
     
  5. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    trying to think back as far as i can, but i dont recall doing a full 180 from really not liking something, to really loving it.

    there was a time i thought the DJ was not so awesome, felt the shape was too bland, but as soon as i saw one in person, and could really follow all the curves and subtle design points, it was instant love.

    i was more ambivalent to panny than disliking them, before i fell in love there. again, i needed to really see them in person to get it.

    have always liked the speedy, how much depends on the day.

    the high complication models is really about dial presentation to me, as to what i really like above other similar type models, and i think my tastes are pretty much what they always have been in that regard. i lean towards symmetry, and for anything asymmetrical, it really needs to be just so for me to really love it.

    there are watches that i liked that i no longer like, but i think a lot of that has to do with the progression of seeing something as finely finished versus a fossil, and then comparing it to something like PP or AP or ALS, or even JLC and IWC and the 5-20k crowd.... and then feeling that what i thought was so fine, was not as finely finished as i thought. combine that with admitted snobbery, and i feel out of like with some "lower end" models.

    if i think of anything else, ill post up.

    solid conversation point, newC!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  6. mimo

    mimo Senior member

    Messages:
    7,382
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Plk,

    Thanks for the message; I'm actually quite surprised by how long it lies across the wrist. But I like it a lot! There are no rules on posting external links that I know of - so thanks again! http://www.ablogtowatch.com/baselworld-2013-the-new-nomos-38-series/

    My watch (my only "proper" watch too) is a beaten-up Omega from about 1970, which is when my mother bought it for my father. It was sharing a pic of this, which brought me into this thread and a broader fascination as a result.
     
  7. plk7

    plk7 Member

    Messages:
    10
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    i thought it was an omega - looks great! nice story behind owning it - it makes it that much more special. i was wearing the nomos when my twins (my first - and likely last - children!) were born last year. my son will get the watch someday. (besides what my wife is going to pass down to her, his sister will get a lovely chain given to me by my grandmother.)
     
  8. wurger

    wurger Senior member

    Messages:
    2,887
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Location:
    Sydney
    For the many of us that dismissed Genta style watches from the beginning, then come to appreciate them down the track, if it wasn't for the brand of Patek or AP, would people even bother revisiting the design?

    Since the design would be classified as very unclassic when they were first introduced, people would start to buy it as the most expensive sports watch from prestigious brands, eventually the appeal would spread to more purist watch lovers. Without doubt Gerald Genta is one great watch designer, he still needs the support of the big names to broaden his appeal.
     
  9. 850csi

    850csi Senior member

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  10. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    

    hard to say. but i think that without AP and PP pushing the models, they may not have gotten enough visibility for people to realize the beauty. some things take time to be appreciated.

    NO I AM NOT SAYING THERE ARE NICE BECAUSE OF TEH BRAND. I AM SAYING THEY NEEDED TIME FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND TEH DESIGN LIKE MANY PIECES OF ART OR FINE DELICACIES THAT TAKE TIME TO APPRECIATE! and that those brands were able to give the models the visibly and time, as opposed to a smaller maker possibly having to cut his loses if it was not an instant success.

    also, as GG designs go, these are very tame. the stuff he did on his own was far further "out there." some of it i like, some i think is ugly, even if brilliant. there are many brilliant watchmakers that have made some ugly arse watches.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. wurger

    wurger Senior member

    Messages:
    2,887
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Location:
    Sydney
    

    My point exactly, stitchy. :happy:
     
  12. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    yup. i was just pontificating. we agree 100%. :cheers:
     
  13. no frills

    no frills Senior member

    Messages:
    2,204
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Location:
    NYC
    Agree here - hard to disentangle the catch-all term "brand" with (a) the specific design and (b) the contribution of the individual designer. After all, the "brand" is affected by the individual piece too, for good or for ill.

    In a sense the Genta designs are a bit of an anomaly for the "big brands" - for them to even acknowledge an individual's contribution to the design of a piece. Did Genta have sharp IP lawyers advising him, insisting that he attach his name to the design to benefit somehow from association? Or was it such a risk back then that PP or AP hedged their bets by naming Genta as the designer so that they could pin the blame on him if the product did not work out? I mean - the watchmaker who designed the Caliber 89 is still alive and well: that piece exceeded the Graves Supercomplication in 1989 as the most complicated watch in the world. But Patek doesn't seem to be in a rush to get the watchmaker's name out there to give him credit. Anyone know more details about Genta's involvement with PP and AP in the early 1970s?

    It's an interesting business strategy - take The Economist, a venerable publication that I read from cover to cover every week. Unlike other publications it remains profitable, and yet they do not even allow their journalists/writers to be named (at most, they take over a generic columnist's space, like "Lexington," who writes about US issues). In this sense they avoid the risk of nurturing "superstars" who will command larger salaries because of their status: this helps keep costs down. But are their journalists being exploited by not giving the credit "they deserve"?

    Anyway, this has veered well beyond the original topic. Sorry. Brand and product design/"look" aside, there were little elements like the quality of finishing that prompted my 180 on the Nautilus - which meant that it had to be appreciated on the wrist. Can't convey stuff like "OMG the bracelet is so comfortable around my wrist, and the blue/green/gray dial changes so magically under different angles and lighting conditions!" without seeing it in the flesh.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

    Messages:
    9,161
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    In my opinion, it's the most elegant sports watch that you can buy.
     
  15. mktitsworth

    mktitsworth Senior member

    Messages:
    2,834
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    

    This sentiment, I think, is the blessing and curse of SF.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

    Messages:
    5,093
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Very interesting post Mister Frilly, I think you pose some very interesting questions. I enjoyed the tangent. I think even more anomalous than having a watchmaker's or designer's name attached to a watch is having the same designer attached to three different watches from three rivals, all created within a relatively short time period (although the new Ingenieur is admittedly the bastard child of Genta's vision). It is pretty amazing that Genta's legacy has survived through these watches. Hell, even VC released the Overseas which is of a similar ilk.

    However, I feel like it is a bit more common in the industry when you really think about it. With IWC, the name Kurt Klaus comes to mind. When I think of Ulysee Nardin and the Freak, I think of Ludwig Oeschlin. Omega's Co-Axial movement is strongly associated with George Daniels, and they seem to rely fairly heavily on his name in advertising. Also Grand Seiko, who claims that the finishing of their watches was taught to them by the one and only Dufour.

    Here is a little blurb that I read a while back on the history of the Royal Oak:

    "At the very beginning of the seventies, Audemars Piguet, just like many other Swiss watch manufacturers, was facing troubled financial conditions. Quartz watches from Japan caused a serious crisis - the period is often referred to as "the quartz crisis" - to the Swiss watch making industry which had no clear ideas on how to stop the dramatic sales drop.

    In 1971 Audemars Piguet realized that, without a disruptive change, a financial collapse was inevitable. Elaborating some feedback that they received from the Italian market about possible interest for a steel luxury watch, the management of the manufacture decided it was time to introduce something totally new, a sporty yet elegant timepiece as never seen before.

    The designer of choice for this task was a designer born in Geneva in 1931 from an Italian father and a Swiss mother: Gerald Genta. Not a new designer, rather one of the most famous watch designer at that time, having created successful watches for Universal Genève (Polerouter Microtors, White Shadow, Golden Shadow), Omega (Constellation) and Patek Philippe (Golden Ellipse).

    On the eve of the 1971 Basel fair (one year before the launch) Audemars Piguet's managing director at the time, Georges Golay, called Gerald Genta at 4pm explaining that the Italian market was expecting an “unprecedented steel watch" for which he needed a design by the following morning. A sports watch for all occasions with the most beautiful finishes ever seen.

    By the morning after Gerald Genta had invented the watch that was to become Royal Oak. He will later state that the Royal Oak was the masterpiece of his career."

    LINK TO SOURCE: http://www.timeandwatches.com/p/history-of-audemars-piguet-royal-oak.html

    It certainly does seem to be a counter-intuitive method of advertising for the brands, but at the same time, by introducing some of the "big dog rock star" watch designers, it definitely helps to make a large brand seem smaller. It is easier to forget that I am paying up the wazoo for a semi-mass-produced item when I think "this has touched the hands of this department," or this minute repeater has personally been inspected by THE Mr. Stern. I think it definitely adds to the romance of it all. New Breguet has little to do with old Breguet. But I would be more interested to hear about the inner workings of their department, and the strides that some of the watchmakers are making within the company as it stands now.
     
    2 people like this.
  17. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    

    :nodding:

    but for watches, i had this sentiment long before i found SF.
     
  18. mtc2000

    mtc2000 Senior member

    Messages:
    237
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Calibre 89 was a collaborated team effort. Most famous for the movement but not the case design. I remember reading a Sunday newspaper article on the progress of it's construction way back in either 1987 or 1988 (NY Times, I believe). I did come across the name of the development team leader but frankly I don't recall it now.

    In contrast, Genta was mostly a case designer.

    The Graves watch was designed without the aid of computers. That should make it extraordinary impressive compare to any modern complicated watches. And it is a unique piece. How many 89's were constructed? At least four, plus a prototype movement at PP.

    Speaking of the "un-Patek" models, remember the Neptune and Sculpture?

    The rectangular PP I posted a couple of days ago was the Pagoda of 1997. Ref 5500, solid back. It is a relatively common commemorative model made in fairly large numbers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  19. NonServiam

    NonServiam Senior member

    Messages:
    377
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2008
    I am (once again) contemplating selling a bunch of watches, including an IWC Portuguese 7-days, vintage nipple dialled 18k GMT-Master and original Jo Siffert Autavia, to fund an Audemars Piguet ROC in rose gold.

    Am I crazy?

    Or am I Ari Gold? :slayer:

    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  20. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,120
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    NS - beautiful watch. If you have the itch, then you might just have to scratch it

    btw for what it's worth I like it on that brown strap. I wouldn't be as big a fan of it on a gold bracelet, though I'm sure it would be buttery comfortable.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by