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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    stitchy - for me, it wold take just one experience like that of the GP owner to get me to pay attention to resale value. I consider myself a watch enthusiast more than a watch collector. That is, I don't endlessly accumulate watches building a 'collection'. I generally have 6 or 8 quality pieces - certainly never more than a dozen. For me, if a watch isn't getting worn, I don't keep it - and only so many can be worn in a given week or two. Since my 'collection' is always evolving (sometimes very slowly, sometimes quickly) with the arrival of a new piece and the departure of an old one, resale definitely matters. That doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a GP. It means I would buy it for pennies on the dollar in the secondary market versus new from an AD.
     
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  2. CHRK33

    CHRK33 Senior member

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    All this (extremely thought-provoking) discussion around resale value prompted me to seek some advice from my fellow TWAT experts - I have been considering the following limited edition VC Overseas Chronograph (being first generation Greek in the U.S. it really speaks to me):

    http://blog.perpetuelle.com/watches/vacheron-constantin-overseas-chronograph-for-greece/

    Retail on the watch was close to 15K euros - what do you folks think might be reasonable on the secondary market for a NIB with all papers, plastics on, and open warranty card?

    Not really sure how the VC Overseas Chronograph does on the secondary market, so would love any insight.

    As always, thanks in advance.
     
  3. Omega Male

    Omega Male Senior member

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    Is it just me, or is this guy leaning in?

    [​IMG]

    Can't tell what (else) he's wearing. Gold Day-Date?
     
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  4. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    Agreed. There's something nice about knowing that a watch you do own actually holds its value quite well.. Again I don't buy watches as investments, but I too was a little shocked to hear that many of the "higher" brand watches I own don't hold their value as well as I thought.

    It actually made me really appreciate Rolex for what they have and still accomplish.

    I did make a little something something on a sold PAM 240 though. Thank goodness for Panerai at least..





     
  5. jbarwick

    jbarwick Senior member

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    That is a lovely looking watch. I noticed it was limited to 100 pieces which could make finding one tough. Two random finds on some internet searches dating back to 2012 showed prices of 13K Euros and 17K Euros for the pieces I saw for sale. It may come down to finding one that pops up for sale that meets your requirements and within a price range you are willing to pay. It's not like some other watches we mention in the TWAT that have thousands upon thousands out there.
     
  6. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

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    These are words to live by for sure.


    However Roger, do you also check into the difficulty of getting a piece like this serviced before you buy one? I mean if you buy a Rolex you have so many options available, but other brands may not be so easy especially if they don't use an ETA movement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  7. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Quote:Yes - service is a consideration - in terms of availability, cost and turnaround time. I happen to have a friend who is an Omega-trained watchmaker, capable of servicing any Swatch Group product. That is a huge plus for me. I have a similar connection for Rolex, through a fellow long time collector. Prospective ease of service is defiitely a consideration for me.
     
  8. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    (OM - wouldn't you?! Frilly, I think, would turn and nestle [​IMG])
    I am a novice in this subject, and have nothing useful to advise on pricing, relative depreciation, or where best to look. But I do have strong feelings about one thing, on which subject I will elaborate shortly: if you're not someone who buys and sells in rotation to get the next big thing, and assuming you can afford it, there is only one big criterion for me, and that is whether you love it.

    I've just had some mixed experiences when putting things I like in principle from pictures and specifications, on my wrist for the first time. Some were outstanding, some were disappointing. Some I'd never have thought of, spoke to me in a way I never expected. Have you ever seen one of these and put it on? Or if not, perhaps put on another VC Overseas chrono to at least see how the weight, style and shape sit with you - especially if you can find one with a similarly made strap. I'd recommend it most highly.

    Perhaps that's obvious advice, but on a more emotional level, I think it's beautiful. I regret that I didn't make it to VC and have never seen them in person - there is no AD in the country where I live, and in my recent tyre-kicking odyssey, it's the only one of the unofficial "big five" that I missed (it's in a different mall to all the others). But I like who they are and what they stand for, I love their designs, and I've a feeling I'm destined to be a fan. From the picture alone, I'd say if you think you're in love and you have to have it, you could do a lot worse!
     
  9. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    Thanks for the responses so far, guys, great stuff. I think I have some thoughts on my previous question. I will be by computer till later today, but I hope to be able to write them out sometime later.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  10. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    OMFG, OM. What an awesome picture to post. That is of course Arnold Palmer, who has earned his share of accolades in his field. I will forgive him for being so close to the Official TWAT Princess (deliberately, in italics).

    Your guess may well be right. Arnold has been featured in Rolex ads with the gold Day-Date since at least the early 1980s.

    I would not just turn and nestle. I would apply for permanent residence.

    As for the question about "knowledge getting in the way" versus the "pure aesthetic concern" - I dunno. I think that if you are so self-aware that you really believe your collection will soon be finalized with the acquisition of just this one last piece, and that you would not find yourself in a position where you need to resell the watch for one reason or another (meaning, well, you can predict the future pretty well)... then by all means, you can go ahead and go by pure aesthetics and emotional pull, budget permitting.

    But how many of us can say we're in this position? I certainly can't.

    Then knowledge of resale value, etc will start creeping in and "getting in the way" of the "pure play."
     
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  11. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    Yes.

    Yes!


    [​IMG]
     
  12. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    But back to stitchy's original question and how he framed it:

    My personal answer, fortunately, is a resounding yes.
     
  13. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    In regards to the caseback, I think this is one of the main things that bothers me about GP. Over and over again, GP releases a watch with a movement that is just way too damn small for the case. And that is just a huge pet peeve of mine. Just sheer laziness. Like let us check this one out. The new GP 1966 Integrated Chrono looks gorgeous, and is 40mm. But look at the caseback. Yeesh! For 35,000 CHF that is just too much of an oversight to me.

    [​IMG]

    First, regarding resale value. I think this is a tough question to answer. I think that anyone who is aware of resale prices considers them in a purchase of any watch. I do not think that I have ever made a decision that was strongly influenced by resale value. However, to me, resale kind of adds into the mystique that surrounds certain brands. It is attractive to me that if I bought a certain Patek, it is possible that it will be valued at a price that far exceeds what I paid for it further down the road. It definitely plays into my psyche. And it also speaks volumes about the strength of that company as a manufacturer.

    However, with regards to brands like Blancpain or GP, there are certainly a few watches in their lineups that really do appeal to me. I will add Breguet into this equation. But at $30,000, they are in some damn stiff competition.

    But to finally answer your question, I do think that I would likely have different watches in the stable if I were to purchase a watch “blindly.” However, I think this is something of a non-issue for me, and probably for most of us TWATters. I do not think there is one thing that I buy that I do not research first. I do not buy anything solely based on looks. Whether it be a watch, a suit, a pair of shoes, a dishwasher, a sofa, beer, liquor, you name it. If I am buying something, I am researching it. What is the purpose of a beautiful dial if it is poorly made and overpriced? Why buy an ergonomically designed dishwasher that is known to constantly break down (not sure why dishwashers are on the mind)? So I think that I would possibly purchase different watches, but it would be such a vacuous purchase. I think that you should put some thought into anything that you are spending $10,000, $20,000, or $30,000 on. So I guess I have to disagree with your statement that “it’s a different type of vantage point with different objectives and desires, and its just as fair and sensible as the less concerned / informed buyer.” I think that buying things without research is just kind of silly. But that belief is just a function of who I am.

    On the flip side, I think that there might be less flipping if we were all to buy the watches that we wanted, rather than the watches we think we should want. When I look at WUS, I constantly see JLC quoted as everyone’s favorite brand, along with a line like “JLC is just so classy,” or “JLC has such a great reputation.” I love JLC as much as the next guy. But JLC is hellishly boring at times. There is just no way that so many people can love JLC. There are not enough classy people out there. I think that TRF kind of has it right. Sure, some of the guys over there have very questionable tastes, but at least they are happy! They embrace their garish, bejeweled Rolexes, and cater to what they really want. There is a reason that Hublot is so popular.

    I apologize for the holes in my argument, I am sure that there are several. I jumped around with reckless abandon.
     
  14. Omega Male

    Omega Male Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    As a golf nut, I actually recognized him before her. Mr. Palmer has still got it.


    [​IMG]

    PS: What (else) is she wearing there?
     
  15. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Fair point, and a conclusion I reached only yesterday while looking at some. Also, there are many makers who put movements in oversized cases - Omega up even to AP. But JLC could also have that finger pointed, having expanded the size of the Reversos, for instance, but padded in the same little engine as the smaller models. Not that I'm especially down on JLC - they have some things that I love, including some overgrown Reversos!

    I think there's an element of fickle fashion in which brands hold their credibility - like JLC - while others as mentioned, despite also having a proud history, do not. But perhaps JLC is saved not just by a herd mentality among watch geeks, but also by having a couple of very distinctive ranges that are really nothing like what anyone else does - Reverso and Duometre spring to mind. Hence if one really is a "collector", it would be hard to leave JLC out of the display case. GP or BP perhaps a little easier.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  16. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    OM, I see this is breaking news for today (Arnold Palmer giving lessons to the Official TWAT Princess presumably sometime yesterday).

    This picture makes me want to shake Arnold Palmer's hand and punch him in the gut at the same time. So, I think I will do this: I will pretend to shake his hand, and then right when he reaches out, I will move swiftly to punch his gut, then land an overhand left on his temple. WTF.

    On a TWAT-related note, yes, what watch is Kate Upton wearing? I think this is actually the first time I've ever seen her wearing a watch.
     
  17. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    I think this may be the crowning achievement in Arnold Palmer's life. Is it wrong that I am feeling overly protective?
     
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  18. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    I say a gold Cartier Santos

    She has weird gums. Still, I expect Arnold keeps his gnashers in a glass by the bed, so he's no cause to notice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  19. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    great replies, guys!

    i want to touch on a few points that were made


    roger
    for me, it wold take just one experience like that of the GP owner to get me to pay attention to resale value. I consider myself a watch enthusiast more than a watch collector.
    newC
    “it’s a different type of vantage point with different objectives and desires, and its just as fair and sensible as the less concerned / informed buyer.” I think that buying things without research is just kind of silly. But that belief is just a function of who I am.
    frilly
    I think that if you are so self-aware that you really believe your collection will soon be finalized with the acquisition of just this one last piece, and that you would not find yourself in a position where you need to resell the watch for one reason or another (meaning, well, you can predict the future pretty well)... then by all means, you can go ahead and go by pure aesthetics and emotional pull, budget permitting.

    i am on board with this personally, however, i was addressing a different type of shopper. there are people that are not collectors or enthusiasts. they just want one nice fancy watch. they may buy one every 10 years, or maybe just once in their life. they just want to experience owning a luxury watch that they can enjoy.

    to that end, why should they care that a watch may have a movement smaller than the case that you can see through a sapphire crystal? to this buyer, the fact they can see the beautiful movement at all is far more meaningful than worrying about why the manufacture did not create a new larger movement.

    why should they care about resale? they will likely never resell. more likely they will keep it, or give it to a kid/grandkid. and if they take a big hit a decade down the road, i doubt they would care. does a guy who uses a bentley for a decade care about depreciation? he just wants a luxury experience and is willing to pay for it. the back end, should it arise, is what it is.

    as an aside, i wouldnt quite compare it to shoes or suits, because the shelf life is not comparable. the "quality" issue in expensive shoes is more of an issue than in watches. its unlikely that a guy buying a GP or BP or breguet or what not, will end up with shoddy quality not consummate with the purchase price. just minimal resale value as result of low secondary market interest. and by the way, that market is mostly guys like us. if for whatever reason, we as a whole all of sudden fell in love with these brands, the secondary market would sky rocket. its not a result of quality or craftsmanship, just the particular desires of watch enthusiasts and collectors.

    that is why i feel that for many people, there is no need for much research, it will only make their decision harder and less enjoyable. they can be confident in the quality of the piece they are purchasing, and they can thoroughly enjoy it, and i think thats great.

    again, that is not me. not by a long shot, but i think its a perfectly reasonable approach to buying things. and sometimes i envy the ability of a less concerned buyer to look at aesthetics more objectively.


    i will address my actual question later. still mulling on it.
    ---

    as to JLC being hellishly boring, some models yes, but they have some envelope pushing stuff too. also, i am a HUGE fanboi of JLC.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  20. Omega Male

    Omega Male Senior member

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    There are always going to be different kinds of consumers for big-ticket items. There are those who plot a particular purchase over time and actually get additional pleasure from the chase itself -- narrowing down the alternatives to exactly the right piece, deciding exactly what it's worth, then going out and getting it for that. And there are those who just see something, like it and buy it. Nothing fundamentally wrong with either approach, but the former group are by definition going to take less of a bath in any secondary market if it does come to that.
     
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