The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Gauss17]



Maybe here I'm in the minority. However, I'm friendly with lots of collectors that think IWCs have become sterile in design, unattractive, caught up in the supersize trend, and offer little worth purchasing.

I think IWC makes excellent pieces, but may be getting a bit caught up in the supersize trend, as you state.

 

[rnguy001]

These are quite cool indeed

Take a pic
I have a manual Autavia with Siffert coloring, that is my definite favourite. Cal 72, so it's basically a vintage Daytona (no, it's not ).
And a silver dialled auto. Pretty rare, I see it much less often than the Siffert. Still usually a lot cheaper.
Autavias are what got me started collecting vintage. Awesome 70s racing aesthetics at reasonable prices

 

[Kai]

I just purchased my first Chinese watch not very long ago.

I own Swiss and Japanese watches, but have never had a Chinese watch.

I've stayed away from Chinese watches up until now because I've been kind of skeptical about quality. However, I've continued to hear good things about the higher end Chinese offerings, so I decided to take the plunge. (I am old enough to remember when "made in Japan" had a derogatory connotation, and that clearly has changed over the past several decades, so I'm willing to give the Chinese the benefit of the doubt.)

For my first Chinese watch, I decided on a Seagull Tourbillon. I figured that the tourbillon model was likely to be among the highest quality Chinese watches available, so it would give me a good idea of the state of the art of Chinese watchmaking. Also, I don't really ever intend to buy a Swiss tourbillon, so this was a good chance to buy a tourbillon at a reasonable price. I've not really ever lusted after a tourbillon, but this seemed like the opportunity to get one.

I've been pretty pleased with the watch so far. The dial is quite nicely done, and it has hands that are blued. The crystal is a very well done domed sapphire crystal. There is a crystal display back. The hand winding movement is not particularly fancy looking or decorated. However, it does look like quality, with blued screws and a portion of the tourbillon visible.

The tourbillon is pretty cool. I actually like it quite a bit more than I thought I would. Watching it move and twist its way around the second hand marker is kind of mesmerizing. It's very steam punk, with its tiny gears and cogs all in motion.

The watch seems to be keeping very good time. I don't really have any means of checking accuracy to the second, but after wearing it for 4 days, it's still running accurate to the minute, which is accurate enough for my purposes.

The alligator band is nice, but the deployant clasp is not quite as comfortable as some I've used.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the watch. It's a very nice piece, and a good addition to my collection. I've got another Chinese watch on the way. Will post impressions of that one when I've had a chance to wear it a while.

 

[academe]



usually i like a white gold, but with this i prefer the rose. pics when you kop, of course.

The rose gold with a silver/white dial certainly has a warmer feel to it -- would pair well with my tweeds and flannels. The white gold would be more flexible, particularly with the black strap; for those days when I also need to put on a coat and tie. Given that I wear tweeds, flannels and earth tones more often, the rose gold might be get more use in the long-term...

 

[academe]



I've worn my 15202 almost everyday since I got it in August, and I love it.  Its become my favorite watch and I think its one of the best purchases I've ever made.  Admittedly I'm not really tough on my watches.  Initially, I wondered about its water resistance, but I have several Rolex watches including a Sub that I would wear for more rugged sports. 

I own 2 VC dress watches already.  I liked their dress watches, but of their sport watches the only one I really like is their original 222 (from the late 1970s early 80s).  I've never liked the Overseas all that much.  The original was decent looking but had lots of problems with bracelet links locking up (a buddy of mine that collected VCs had a chronograph with lots of problems and eventually dumped it).  The second generation is just an oversized ugly watch.  The case looks lopsided and heavy, and grew in size just to join the "Look at me I have a giant watch club."  The dial is ugly on the time only model (the first generation was more sophisticated), the alternating subdial size design of the chronograph is goofy...then there is the gaudy bracelet.  No thanks.  I spent a lot of time looking at various models of ROs, Overseas, and PP Nautilus.  The Overseas just never seemed to have the quality of finish that the ROs or the Nautilus had. 

I'm kind of dissappointed with where IWC has gone in the last 10 years or so. 


Actually, the 2120 and 2121 have been used in AP dress watches for decades.  In addition, several VC dress watches have also use/used the 1120/1121 (their version of AP's 2120/2121) in dress watches and sport watches for several decades.  Sadly, the current version of the movement in the VC just doesn't look as nicely finished to me as in the AP.  Even the rotor in the current VC using the 1120 is not as beautifully finished as it used to be when they used that movement.  

Dino - as we've discussed before, the VCs - while certainly beautiful - seem overpriced and finishing is not as fine as the APs (IMHO).

You also quite rightly point out that the 2121 used in the Extra Thin is the sibling of the VC 1120; weren't they both originally developed in a JLC-AP-VC joint venture? A lovely movement; great review on TimeZone about it?

 

[apropos]



I just purchased my first Chinese watch not very long ago.
I own Swiss and Japanese watches, but have never had a Chinese watch.
I've stayed away from Chinese watches up until now because I've been kind of skeptical about quality. However, I've continued to hear good things about the higher end Chinese offerings, so I decided to take the plunge. (I am old enough to remember when "made in Japan" had a derogatory connotation, and that clearly has changed over the past several decades, so I'm willing to give the Chinese the benefit of the doubt.)
For my first Chinese watch, I decided on a Seagull Tourbillon. I figured that the tourbillon model was likely to be among the highest quality Chinese watches available, so it would give me a good idea of the state of the art of Chinese watchmaking. Also, I don't really ever intend to buy a Swiss tourbillon, so this was a good chance to buy a tourbillon at a reasonable price. I've not really ever lusted after a tourbillon, but this seemed like the opportunity to get one.
I've been pretty pleased with the watch so far. The dial is quite nicely done, and it has hands that are blued. The crystal is a very well done domed sapphire crystal. There is a crystal display back. The hand winding movement is not particularly fancy looking or decorated. However, it does look like quality, with blued screws and a portion of the tourbillon visible.
The tourbillon is pretty cool. I actually like it quite a bit more than I thought I would. Watching it move and twist its way around the second hand marker is kind of mesmerizing. It's very steam punk, with its tiny gears and cogs all in motion.
The watch seems to be keeping very good time. I don't really have any means of checking accuracy to the second, but after wearing it for 4 days, it's still running accurate to the minute, which is accurate enough for my purposes.
The alligator band is nice, but the deployant clasp is not quite as comfortable as some I've used.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with the watch. It's a very nice piece, and a good addition to my collection. I've got another Chinese watch on the way. Will post impressions of that one when I've had a chance to wear it a while.

I'm happy you are happy with your watch, but your review is the horological equivalent of a teenager being impressed with his first Beats headphone.

 

[HEPennypacker]



I think IWC makes excellent pieces, but may be getting a bit caught up in the supersize trend, as you state.

IWC has always had large watches. If anything, the "trend" found them, not the other way around. I am amused by the IWC hate in this thread and will be curious to see if it affects the SF groupthink. I remember a few years ago when the IWC Portuguese was the SF-approved watch (for instance, Foo had one at the time). In-house movement, beautiful dial, legitimate history. As for its being "not really dressy" and "not really sporty," the same could be said for any number of the tool watches that many here think pass for dress watches. Yet they are admired for their "versatility." In my mind, the Portuguese is much more versatile than a Panerai, Rolex Sub, or RO (not to say that those watches aren't also "beautiful" in their own right).

But, of course, I might be biased as I just purchased an IWC--pics forthcoming

 

[in stitches]



The rose gold with a silver/white dial certainly has a warmer feel to it -- would pair well with my tweeds and flannels. The white gold would be more flexible, particularly with the black strap; for those days when I also need to put on a coat and tie. Given that I wear tweeds, flannels and earth tones more often, the rose gold might be get more use in the long-term...

DO

IT

 

[Allez Allez]

On the topic of smaller vintage IWCs, I humbly offer my 3531, the "kleine portugieser", on brown alligator strap.

 

[Dino944]

Dino - as we've discussed before, the VCs - while certainly beautiful - seem overpriced and finishing is not as fine as the APs (IMHO).
You also quite rightly point out that the 2121 used in the Extra Thin is the sibling of the VC 1120; weren't they both originally developed in a JLC-AP-VC joint venture? A lovely movement; great review on TimeZone about it?

As for VCs, I was very disappointed to see that the current VC use of the 1120 (their caliber for AP's 2120) used a rotor that was only part gold and the part with the Maltese Cross was in steel with a bland finish. When they had previously used an 1120, often times their entire rotor was gold, it was beautifully decorated and shaped like their Maltese Cross and was also beautifully engraved.

The movement you speak of was developed by JLC (of which AP owned 40% of up until a few years ago when it sold its interest). It is the only movement ever to be used by the Big 3 (PP, AP, and VC). It was never used in a JLC. Patek stopped using it in their Nautilus many years ago, but their original Nautilus with cal 28-255 is very collectible and valuable today. Also, unlike AP and VC which used calibers ending in some form of the number 20, PP's caliber based on the 920 did not end in a 20.

I think the Jules Audemars Ultra thin is a beautiful piece. I'm sure if you got one you would really enjoy it.

 

[dopey]



On the topic of smaller vintage IWCs, I humbly offer my 3531, the "kleine portugieser", on brown alligator strap.

This watch would be awesome if it had hands.

 

[in stitches]



This watch would be awesome if it had hands.

 

[MrXavier]

Yes, they are under my homeowners Chubb.

Why thank you, I am looking to insure both watches privately and have heard several mix reviews on how to go about doing so. Does your insurance cover for both theft and loss?

Many thanks for your reply.

 

[Dino944]

IWC has always had large watches. If anything, the "trend" found them, not the other way around. I am amused by the IWC hate in this thread and will be curious to see if it affects the SF groupthink. I remember a few years ago when the IWC Portuguese was the SF-approved watch (for instance, Foo had one at the time). In-house movement, beautiful dial, legitimate history. As for its being "not really dressy" and "not really sporty," the same could be said for any number of the tool watches that many here think pass for dress watches. Yet they are admired for their "versatility." In my mind, the Portuguese is much more versatile than a Panerai, Rolex Sub, or RO (not to say that those watches aren't also "beautiful" in their own right).
But, of course, I might be biased as I just purchased an IWC--pics forthcoming

I don't hate IWC, but I'm not enamoured with any of their current offerings. As for the Portugese being SF approved by some people, that means nothing to me. I don't like the dial of the 7 day at all, but thats subjective...maybe if they had cut out the date window it would be an improvement. As for the in house movement, that was a necessity if they wanted to be competitive with Rolex, JLC, Breitling, and Omega (all of which had or were developing some inhouse calibers). As for your issue about my saying its "not really dressy" and "not really sporty"....the subdials and date cut out create a busy, less dressy watch, yet its not sporty either. Your attempt to say the same about Panerai or Rolex because of their wearers, is different. The Panerai and Rolex Sub are both sports watches that were developed for diving, scuba etc. They are purely sports watches. Sure people can wear them with a suit or some idiot who thinks he is James Bond might pair it with tux, its their choice. They can chose to drive a Maserati Bora in a blizzard, but I wouldn't chose to. The Royal Oak was designed as a luxury sports watch to be worn for probably everything other than diving or very dressy events where you would want a dedicated dive watch or a watch on a leather strap.

IWC has not always made large watches...but they were early on in the trend with the 3713 Doppel around 1992/93. Look at their production during the 1980s into the early 90s. They only large watches they made back the 1980s were the watches designed by Porsche Design and which they were building for Porsche Design (the Ocean 2000, the Titan, and the Compass watch). Their own 40mm Ingenieur SL Jumbo from rough 1976 shrank to roughly 34mm in the early to mid 80s. Their DaVinci perpetual calendar chronograph was quite an achievement but the case was originally too damn small so all of the inner subdial were tiny and tough to read. They only bumped it up in size many years later. For several years after 1993 the only large watch they made was the Doppel chrono ref 3713. The Portuguese line, the current/much larger revised Ingenieur, Big Pilot, etc all came much later.

I liked IWCs of the past a lot more than I do today. Maybe I just lament not being able to find one that I truly love these days. No watch can be everything to everyone. Perhaps something new from them at SIHH will renew my interest in the brand.

 

[Dino944]

On the topic of smaller vintage IWCs, I humbly offer my 3531, the "kleine portugieser", on brown alligator strap.

Far nicer looking than the 7 Day. Thanks for sharing a photo.