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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. dopey

    dopey Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

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    Interesting. I would think that when you get to large, high grade stones, the vendor doesn't really matter very much. Sort of like no one cares what gallery you bought a painting from if the artwork has a recognized value. But maybe 5ct isn't big enough.
     


  2. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    lol, USD.


    naw, diamonds are different. even in huge size. if you go to tiffany/cartier/van cleef, you are going to pay a huge premium, huge. i dont think the analogy is really spot on either. a painting, the brand is the painter. a diamond, the brand is the vendor.
     


  3. Kai

    Kai Distinguished Member

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    I like the off-white dial. Looks good on the original steel, or you could substitute a brown leather band.


     


  4. Dino944

    Dino944 Distinguished Member

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    +1
    As Stitchy pointed out, there is a huge premium buying a diamond at Cartier, Van Cleef, Tiffany etc. On the flip side, if you go to sell a diamond and you take 2 very similar diamonds (same color, cut, clarity, and roughly same carat weight) and each is GIA certified as to those qualities, the stone from Cartier, Van Cleef, etc will generally sell for far more than the stone from your local high end jeweler...even though both are certified by GIA to be roughly the same. Although if you had to pay a lot more from the start, I'm not sure if the percentage of the original purchase price is the same, higher or lower...I think it would be interesting to see the stats on that...although only the original buyer and the boutiques could figure that out.

    I can tell you Stitchy is pretty close on the price of the stone he has if it came from Cartier. My wife and I were in one of their Las Vegas Boutiques in October....and they had rings with 3 color-less stones, with center stones ranging in size from a little over 3 carats to roughly 5 carats. All were E or D in color, and clarity ranged from IF (internally flawless) to VVS1 and their prices ranged from around $230,000 to a little over $500,000.
     


  5. Subtleyjewish

    Subtleyjewish Member

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    Good morning fellow enthusiasts. I've got a quick question for you guys about a Vacheron Constantin from circa 1970-1980. I don't have a picture of the watch, or the reference number, as it is across the country soaking up the Napa sun with my father. However, as the wills stand, I'm currently slated to inherit this watch. It's 18k gold, and is an ultra-thin watch. The watch came with a Vacheron Constantin black alligator strap. The last time I inspected the watch was when I first became interested in timepieces, and I found it slightly odd that the dial said Vacheron & Constantin, as opposed to Vacheron Constantin, which I now assume is a more modern styling. The closest match that I've found on ebay is http://www.ebay.com/itm/VACHERON-CO...931814729?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2578489d49, although http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacheron-Co...112359665?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3f1f8e4ef1 and http://www.ebay.com/itm/VACHERON-CO...134695599?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item337ca7acaf are extremely similar. My father has had it serviced by Vacheron, so I do know that the watch is authentic. Anyways, I apologize for the extensive backstory, but I felt that it was necessary to introduce my question: is my dad's Vacheron a manual wind movement? I don't believe that he ever kept it in a winder, but I remember it keeping time whenever he showed it to me. I know that quartz movements started to emerge around this time, and I once suspected that there was a battery beating on the inside of the impossibly thin case. I know that it will be hard to discern without pictures, or even the reference number, but any information would be greatly appreciated!
     


  6. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    its a lovely watch based on the comps. you have 3 options.

    1. quartz
    2. manual wind mechanical
    3. automatic/self winding mechanical

    i do not think its quartz. if your dad wore it often, he probably wound it each morning. have you tried winding it? if its running, put your ear to it, if you hear a consistent, tick-tick-tick-tick..... as opposed to, tick, pause, tick, pause, tick, pause.... it is not quartz. if you hear the consistent, tick-tick-tick-tick, shake it a tad, if your hear a rotor, its automtaic, if not, its manual wind.

    btw - i love your user name. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012


  7. Subtleyjewish

    Subtleyjewish Member

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    Much appreciated! Next time I visit my dad, I'll give it a listen! Hahaha, thanks! As a jew who went to a new england prep school, I've always kept it on the down low ;)
     


  8. ThinkDerm

    ThinkDerm Stylish Dinosaur

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    great. details?
     


  9. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    i can help out with that, as we do purchase many stones from people who originally bought them at high end name brand jewelers, and then we subsequently sell them ourselves.

    when you buy a stone, of any size, at a name brand jeweler, you will always pay a premium. and sometimes, with larger, uber high quality stones, an even higher premium, as they are rarer to begin with, and the name brand stores cash in on that even more. when you then re-sell them, it can go a few ways.

    first thing is, you HAVE to have all the original box and papers from the place you purchased the ring. without them, its no different at all than having bought it from a local independent. the only reason a stone from a branded jeweler has any appeal, is because it was bough at a high end jeweler. unlike a watch which has the brand slapped across the face, and in many other places, a diamonds provenience is indistinguishable. if you cant prove it with paperwork, for the next owner to have, its like it never happened.

    if you are selling to another person, who wants the ring to wear (which is almost impossible to do with huge stones, almost no one wants to fork over 6 figures + to a stranger, who cant service the purchase after the fact) i really have no idea what you would get on the sale, as that is almost an impossibility. but i imagine you would get back some of the premium, depending on the needs/interests of the buyer and seller. its more than likely you would take a huge hit, as that is the only reason for a buyer to take the risk of buying from someone that will not be there to help in the future.

    if you are selling through an auction house to sell to an individual for you, it just depends on the particular stone, and who is in the market at that particular auction date, looking to buy. its possible to go anywhere from not selling at all, to losing significant money, to making significant money, and anywhere in between. thats just the nature of auction houses.

    in the more normal case, of selling to an individual private buyer in the jewelry business, who deals in high end goods like these, who will pay you cash on the spot, and then it is their problem to re-sell, it usually plays out like this. assuming that all the proper paperwork is there, you will get back some of that premium you paid out. obviously you will not get what you paid for it (unless it was bought a very very very very long time ago, when diamonds were not getting the kind of money they do now) because you are selling to someone who has to re-sell and make a profit. but, you will get more, because the re-seller will get more. however, it is highly unlikely, that you will get the same percentage in return premium as what you paid.

    meaning, if the stone you bought would cost 100k at a regular place, that prices based solely on the diamond market, and you paid 150k, you paid a 50% premium. if a buyer would normally pay 80k for the regular stone (80% of purchase price) bought based on regular market pricing, it is unlikely you would get 120K (again, 80%) for the stone bought at the branded jeweler. you would get more than the 80K, but not not a ton more. sidebar - these numbers are all made up, i just picked numbers that are easy to break down.

    the reason being, when the re-seller goes to resell, even though they can get a premium for the branded stone, they cant get the full premium, because in the end of the day, buying a tiffany stone from a local jeweler, is not the same as buying it from tiffany. part of the premium that these things get, is the experience of shopping in that store (in this point, it is much like purchasing a watch from a boutique as opposed to a jeweler or an individual selling in a classified). so a person shopping elsewhere, though they will pay more for a tiffany stone, they certainly wont pay the same price as what they would pay at a tiffany store. if they could afford to, and wanted to, they would be shopping there to begin with.

    i hope that makes sense.

    lol, i wish we were on par with cartier. we will not make a huge profit on the stone. a nice one, but not huge. we will not get 200K + for it, like cartier gets. :(
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012


  10. Cylon

    Cylon Senior Member

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    why the hell are we talking about diamonds
     


  11. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    because they are fun, and the convo steered that way. sorry to derail.
     


  12. JayJay

    JayJay Stylish Dinosaur

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    It was an educational discussion, I learned a thing or two. :teach: Thanks.
     


  13. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    my pleasure, buddy. :)

    to repent, here is my watch today.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012


  14. RAYZ-ACE

    RAYZ-ACE Active Member

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    Thank you, I"m very happy with it. At the moment no intention of getting another watch, but i wouldn't mind another one :)
     


  15. Dino944

    Dino944 Distinguished Member

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    Hi Stitch,

    Thanks for the insight from the re-seller's point of view. Your last paragraph basically summed up what I thought goes on in terms of people paying a premium, largely for the experience of buying a diamond through a high end boutique, and then how things proceed when it is being re-sold. Thanks again always great to get an insiders view of high end luxury goods.

    Best regards,
    Dino
     


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