The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Dino944]

Great. Now I have the Square Watch Bug again. Beautiful piece.

Thanks Hayward. I had really fallen for this watch when I saw its photo from the SIHH show in a watch magazine. I really was impressed with their use of right angles and squares to create depth to the case by using the "stepped" lugs, and the shaped movement also helped distinguish it from square pieces from other companies. I guess I'm a sucker for -non-round cases. I only have 3 dress watches but none of them are round.

 

[Trompe le Monde]

who doesnt love the holiday season!!!

a post with gift #2 to come shortly hereafter

 

[Dino944]

What would be your ultimate 2 or 3 hand dress watch?
Mine is a 5mm thick Vacheron from 1962 with the ultrathin cal 1003. Still superior to any modern dress watch I have experience with, even the Historiques 1955 and Piagets which are not true ultra thins (not having a movement thickness of less than 2mm).

Hi B,

The ultra thin 1003 is very cool. I believe the only current VC to use it is their Patrimony Traditionelle Skeleton watch. I can appreciate an ultra thin movement, but that is not necessary to make me happy. Choosing an ultimate 2 or 3 hand dress watch is tough so I will go with 3 catagories.

For vintage it would be a Patek 3424 (in a white metal) designed by Gilbert Albert. I really like non round cases, and to me its asymmetric case a very fresh and unusal look for Patek. I think when it comes to dress watches most people hear the name Patek and they think Calatrava. The 3424 flies under the radar and would not really be noticed as a Patek except by Patek collectors.

One of my ultimate two hand dress watches, is in my collection already. It might not be everyone's choice but for me, its beautiful, interesting, and high quality. I really love my Louis Cartier Tank XL from the Privee Collection. It was made from 2007-2008. Only 200 were made in rose and 50 in platinum. It has a beautiful rectangular movement from Piaget and its visible through the saphire crystal back. Its a watch that is paired down to its essentials, simple case design, classic Roman numerals with blued sword shaped hands, and a design that is roughly 100 years old and still looks fresh and sophisticated with a suit or sport jacket.

For current favorite 2 hand dress watches, I would have to say I really like the JLC 1931 tribute watch, and the Piaget Altiplano (both their 2 hand manual and their 40mm manual with subdial for seconds at 10 o'clock). I like VC ref 43075/000R-9737, especially since its uses the famous 1120 (also used by Patek and AP), but their choice to only use gold for the outer part of the rotor bothers me a bit.

Just noticed its from 2002. The movement is reminiscent of the vintage Vacheron cushion calibre 457. Tres beau!
Most of V&C's modern tonneau watches use round movements. Another reason to go vintage.

That watch is inspired by a design they made in the late 1930s. Their vintage watches had very cool watch cases and lugs. I find some of their modern watches a little bit uninspiring. My favorite watches in their current collection are generally from their Historique collection. I also have a VC from 2006, called the 1972. Its in rose gold, used an asymmetric case, and a manual wind movment where the crown recesses into the side of the case for a very sleek , clean look. Its another piece inspired by their past designs.

 

[Keith T]

This was yesterday...

 

[oisin]



I wanted others to go at it before I dropped my 2 cents, but by and large I am in agreement with you guys. Surprisingly (to me) I liked the Cartier Tank Solo more than the reverso. The TTR1931 looks really small in person. As much as I love its aesthetics in pictures, I really don't think I'd buy it. 

i tried the 1931 on this weekend too and came to the same conclusion. just didn't fit me right and too small for me. at least that's one i can stop lusting over, though i will always appreciate its looks.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]



Hi B,

The ultra thin 1003 is very cool.  I believe the only current VC to use it is their Patrimony Traditionelle Skeleton watch.  I can appreciate an ultra thin movement, but that is not necessary to make me happy.  Choosing an ultimate 2 or 3 hand dress watch is tough so I will go with 3 catagories.

For vintage it would be a Patek 3424 (in a white metal) designed by Gilbert Albert.  I really like non round cases, and to me its asymmetric case a very fresh and unusal look for Patek.  I think when it comes to dress watches most people hear the name Patek and they think Calatrava. The 3424 flies under the radar and would not really be noticed as a Patek except by Patek collectors. 

One of my ultimate two hand dress watches, is in my collection already.  It might not be everyone's choice but for me, its beautiful, interesting, and high quality.   I really love my Louis Cartier Tank XL from the Privee Collection.  It was made from 2007-2008.  Only 200 were made in rose and 50 in platinum. It has a beautiful rectangular movement from Piaget and its visible through the saphire crystal back.  Its a watch that is paired down to its essentials, simple case design, classic Roman numerals with blued sword shaped hands, and a design that is roughly 100 years old and still looks fresh and sophisticated with a suit or sport jacket. 

For current favorite 2 hand dress watches, I would have to say I really like the JLC 1931 tribute watch, and the Piaget Altiplano (both their 2 hand manual and their 40mm manual with subdial for seconds at 10 o'clock).  I like VC ref 43075/000R-9737, especially since its uses the famous 1120 (also used by Patek and AP), but their choice to only use gold for the outer part of the rotor bothers me a bit.   
That watch is inspired by a design they made in the late 1930s.  Their vintage watches had very cool watch cases and lugs.  I find some of their modern watches a little bit uninspiring.  My favorite watches in their current collection are generally from their Historique collection.  I also have a VC from 2006, called the 1972.  Its in rose gold, used an asymmetric case, and a manual wind movment where the crown recesses into the side of the case for a very sleek , clean look.  Its another piece inspired by their past designs.

Hi Dino, actually two other modern VCs use the cal 1003. The Historiques 1955 and Coin watch. Both are reissues of past V&Cs. I am a huge fan of ultrathins and two of the most groundbreaking were the VC cal 1003 (1.64mm) also used as the AP 2003, and the JLC cal 839/849 (1.85mm). These were the only true ultrathin movements built in the last 50 years that worked reliably. I actually collect prime vintage examples of the cal 1003 and have 12 references to date. The one I wear the most is one I bought from a single owner who wore it for 40 years everyday, so you know that can handle daily life. Vintage VCs from my experience were clearly built better, even though they were simple watches, in the pre-conglomerate era. They cost 10 times more than a comparable Rolex in the 60s, so you can imagine the cost differential.

The Patek you mentioned is exquisite and I do agree it is far more interesting and well-priced than a comparable Calatrava. You definitely pay more for the Patek name but it does hold its value well over time. I have never been a fan of the brand myself (preferring VC and JLC) and the only Pateks in my collection were inherited, an old Nautilus and a vintage steel Calatrava which lives in a safe.

The Privee Collection Cartiers were certainly interesting watches. However, having owned many Cartiers over the last ten years, I have noticed their quality and service slipping (though only in Asia - London and Paris boutique experiences are still amazing), and their servicing costs go up every single year. I find this simply usurious and will not abide the practice as a matter of principle.

Funny you mention the TT1931, I just bought the Casa Fagliano edition last week to celebrate an occasion and am enamoured with it. It is the perfect Reverso in my opinion and distills the sporty nature of the original watch. The strap is nothing impressive though. As for Piaget, their gaudy designs that characterise the brand and the lacklustre finishing leave me unimpressed. I have examined pretty much their entire current output and still prefer my old Polo from the 90s, when they still had some elegance.

If you read the famous TZ review of the cal 1120 online, the author speaks of the agricultural finishing in some parts of the movement. At VC prices (I know it is still considered cheap for them) I find this unacceptable and would rather go for a similar piece from JLC, or indeed, from myself.

You are right that modern VC designs are quite staid. Only the Toledo from the Historiques collection impresses. In fact I considered acquiring the 1955 a month ago but after seeing it at the boutique felt the painted indices made it look ever so slightly... cheap. And the super small movement, which seems to typify modern day VC watches.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]



i tried the 1931 on this weekend too and came to the same conclusion. just didn't fit me right and too small for me. at least that's one i can stop lusting over, though i will always appreciate its looks.

I actually thought the 1931 is too big for my 7 plus inch wrist, probably the only factor I dislike about it. But I have always preferred slim elegant watches anyway.

Still hunting for a red dial vintage Reverso from 1931...

 

[vincefb]

 

[Dino944]

Hi Dino, actually two other modern VCs use the cal 1003. The Historiques 1955 and Coin watch. Both are reissues of past V&Cs. I am a huge fan of ultrathins and two of the most groundbreaking were the VC cal 1003 (1.64mm) also used as the AP 2003, and the JLC cal 839/849 (1.85mm). These were the only true ultrathin movements built in the last 50 years that worked reliably. I actually collect prime vintage examples of the cal 1003 and have 12 references to date. The one I wear the most is one I bought from a single owner who wore it for 40 years everyday, so you know that can handle daily life. Vintage VCs from my experience were clearly built better, even though they were simple watches, in the pre-conglomerate era. They cost 10 times more than a comparable Rolex in the 60s, so you can imagine the cost differential.
The Patek you mentioned is exquisite and I do agree it is far more interesting and well-priced than a comparable Calatrava. You definitely pay more for the Patek name but it does hold its value well over time. I have never been a fan of the brand myself (preferring VC and JLC) and the only Pateks in my collection were inherited, an old Nautilus and a vintage steel Calatrava which lives in a safe.
The Privee Collection Cartiers were certainly interesting watches. However, having owned many Cartiers over the last ten years, I have noticed their quality and service slipping (though only in Asia - London and Paris boutique experiences are still amazing), and their servicing costs go up every single year. I find this simply usurious and will not abide the practice as a matter of principle.
Funny you mention the TT1931, I just bought the Casa Fagliano edition last week to celebrate an occasion and am enamoured with it. It is the perfect Reverso in my opinion and distills the sporty nature of the original watch. The strap is nothing impressive though. As for Piaget, their gaudy designs that characterise the brand and the lacklustre finishing leave me unimpressed. I have examined pretty much their entire current output and still prefer my old Polo from the 90s, when they still had some elegance.
If you read the famous TZ review of the cal 1120 online, the author speaks of the agricultural finishing in some parts of the movement. At VC prices (I know it is still considered cheap for them) I find this unacceptable and would rather go for a similar piece from JLC, or indeed, from myself.
You are right that modern VC designs are quite staid. Only the Toledo from the Historiques collection impresses. In fact I considered acquiring the 1955 a month ago but after seeing it at the boutique felt the painted indices made it look ever so slightly... cheap. And the super small movement, which seems to typify modern day VC watches.

Hi B,

Yes, the 1955 escaped me and I never really liked the coin watch so its just not on my radar. I think our tastes and opinions (other than on the JLC 1931) may differ quite a bit. I am not really in love with most current VCs. I've tried the 1955 and the 1968, and thought both were very unimpressive and overpriced. One of the few of the Historique models I really like is the such as 1921 American (although I'm not sure how I feel about its movement). The Aronde is interesting but I don't think I like it enought that I would ever buy one. Overall, I'm just not in love with most modern VCs. These days their prices seem to overshadow and outweigh the quality of their items. As for the Toledo, I only like in its earlier handwound remake from the early 1990s when I believe it was just called the Carree. I don't care for the current version, I find it too clumsy and bulkie, and I don't care for its dial.

I think VC's vintage pieces are definitely under appreciated and under valued both in terms of quality and price. I also think many were more daring and beautiful in design, than what we see today. A friend of mine had a collection of more than 30 vintage VCs and each was really special, interesting in design, and incredibly high quality. My only issue with them is, although I'm not someone that feels I have to have a giant watch to follow the current watch market designs, some of the vintage models are a bit on the small side.

As for the Privee Cartiers, they are nothing like the standard models of the past 10 years. They are also more finely finished than their few higher quality non-ETA movment watches which were part of their mainstream collection. Each use incredibly high quality base movements from JLC, THA, F.Piguet, and Piaget, and then they are finished to Cartier's own standards. As for quality I would put them against any top brands. Lange and Patek are the only ones that are definitely still more finely finished. However, that still leaves them in very distinguished company. As for the cost of service on a basic time only piece, they are significantly less than Rolex or the high end brands. The few Cartier servicings on basic watches that my family has had done, ran about $450 (although the last was about 3 years ago). I don't think you can get a Rolex serviced for under $600.

Regarding Piaget, I think the 90s was a dark time for them. Clumsy designs that often were not memorable such as the Tanagra. I think the Polo of the 90s was interesting but I didn't see why it got that name as it had no relation to the original in terms of design. Although I don't own one, I do have a soft spot in my heart for some of their vintage dress watches with stone dials. Yes, there are some flashy and unwearable Piagets, but JLC, Zenith, Patek, VC, AP are not innocent of having produced some strange designs and/or goofy, blingy jeweled pieces. As for their quality, I think I disagree with you there. Again its another brand that from what I've seen produces pieces that are definitely on par with JLC, AP, VC. Patek may have finer finshing and IMHO, only Lange really finishes their pieces in a manor that is beautiful and well beyond the others. My friend who has had more than 30 VCs (most vintage), APs, a Lange Datograph, (not sure he has had a Patek) and currently has a tourbillion from and independent (and he has been to many of the watch factories) has a Piaget Altiplano with subdial for seconds at 10, on his short list. He is also of the opinion that they are every bit as good as any of the top Swiss brands. I'm not a watchmaker, but he practically could be. He can easily get into and explain some of the more technical issues about movements, that could easily put some seasoned collectors too sleep. He has also done quite a bit of writing about movements and watches.

As for the 1120, I am not that pleased with what VC has been doing with their versions. I think AP has done a much better job in terms of quality and finish of their version which is cal 2120. To be honest, although I am not really in love with AP's dress watches, I think their quality these days is a notch above many current VCs.

Well at least we can agree on the JLC 1931. Congrats on your latest acquisition! That's a watch that I think JLC really did an amazing job with. The strap doesn't matter to me, I could take it or leave it. The rest of the watch is ideal. I know some here find it small, but I find the Reverso case just loses some of its beauty and elegance, and becomes too thick and more sport watch when you get into the XGT cases. IMHO, at least on my wrist the 1931, looks and feels perfect. Congrats again, an excellent choice I hope that you will enjoy for many years.

 

[RAYZ-ACE]

I realize its not the most expensive watch or fancy, but its my first watch and wanted to share

 

[Dino944]

^
Congrats and enjoy it. It might be your first watch...but once you get bitten by the bug...there is a second, third, fourth etc.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]



I realize its not the most expensive watch or fancy, but its my first watch and wanted to share

It's a good start. Kudos!

Vintage Movados are pretty cool if you collect vintage. Check out the Ermeto purse watch.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]



Hi B,

Yes, the 1955 escaped me and I never really liked the coin watch so its just not on my radar.  I think our tastes and opinions (other than on the JLC 1931) may differ quite a bit.  I am not really in love with most current VCs.  I've tried the 1955 and the 1968, and thought both were very unimpressive and overpriced.  One of the few of the Historique models I really like is the such as 1921 American (although I'm not sure how I feel about its movement).   The Aronde is interesting but I don't think I like it enought that I would ever buy one.  Overall, I'm just not in love with most modern VCs. These days their prices seem to overshadow and outweigh the quality of their items.  As for the Toledo, I only like in its earlier handwound remake from the early 1990s when I believe it was just called the Carree.  I don't care for the current version, I find it too clumsy and bulkie, and I don't care for its dial.

I think VC's vintage pieces are definitely under appreciated and under valued both in terms of quality and price.  I also think many were more daring and beautiful in design, than what we see today.  A friend of mine had a collection of more than 30 vintage VCs and each was really special, interesting in design, and incredibly high quality.  My only issue with them is, although I'm not someone that feels I have to have a giant watch to follow the current watch market designs, some of the vintage models are a bit on the small side. 

As for the Privee Cartiers, they are nothing like the standard models of the past 10 years.  They are also more finely finished than their few higher quality non-ETA movment watches which were part of their mainstream collection.    Each use incredibly high quality base movements from JLC, THA, F.Piguet, and Piaget, and then they are finished to Cartier's own standards.  As for quality I would put them against any top brands.  Lange and Patek are the only ones that are definitely still more finely finished.  However, that still leaves them in very distinguished company.  As for the cost of service on a basic time only piece, they are significantly less than Rolex or the high end brands.  The few Cartier servicings on basic watches that my family has had done, ran about $450 (although the last was about 3 years ago).  I don't think you can get a Rolex serviced for under $600. 

Regarding Piaget, I think the 90s was a dark time for them.  Clumsy designs that often were not memorable such as the Tanagra.  I think the Polo of the 90s was interesting but I didn't see why it got that name as it had no relation to the original in terms of design.  Although I don't own one, I do have a soft spot in my heart for some of their vintage dress watches with stone dials.  Yes, there are some flashy and unwearable Piagets, but JLC, Zenith, Patek, VC, AP are not innocent of having produced some strange designs and/or goofy, blingy jeweled pieces.  As for their quality, I think I disagree with you there.  Again its another brand that from what I've seen produces pieces that are definitely on par with JLC, AP, VC.  Patek may have finer finshing and IMHO, only Lange really finishes their pieces in a manor that is beautiful and well beyond the others.  My friend who has had more than 30 VCs (most vintage), APs, a Lange Datograph, (not sure he has had a Patek)  and currently has a tourbillion from and independent (and he has been to many of the watch factories) has a Piaget Altiplano with subdial for seconds at 10, on his short list.  He is also of the opinion that they are every bit as good as any of the top Swiss brands.  I'm not a watchmaker, but he practically could be.  He can easily get into and explain some of the more technical  issues about movements, that could easily put some seasoned collectors too sleep.  He has also done quite a bit of writing about movements and watches. 

As for the 1120, I am not that pleased with what VC has been doing with their versions.  I think AP has done a much better job in terms of quality and finish of their version which is cal 2120.  To be honest, although I am not really in love with AP's dress watches, I think their quality these days is a notch above many current VCs. 

Well at least we can agree on the JLC 1931.  Congrats on your latest acquisition!  That's a watch that I think JLC really did an amazing job with.  The strap doesn't matter to me, I could take it or leave it.  The rest of the watch is ideal.  I know some here find it small, but I find the Reverso case just loses some of its beauty and elegance, and becomes too thick and more sport watch when you get into the XGT cases.  IMHO, at least on my wrist the 1931, looks and feels perfect.  Congrats again, an excellent choice I hope that you will enjoy for many years.

Hi Dino,

No worries about a difference in opinion or taste. We can all agree to disagree, especially on a topic as subjective as watches. Actually from much of what you've written I actually think we have pretty similar aesthetic tastes, but differ only on opinions on technical issues. For example, like you, I prefer tank or tonneau shaped watches for dress as well, as they are more interesting.

Likewise with you, I find myself unimpressed by the majority of current VCs, even the Metier d'Árt collection. For enamel dials from European watch brands, I prefer Van Cleef watches which are made by Agenhor. The 1955 left me feeling the vintage cal 1003 watches were made much better, and the 1962 is quite ugly imho.

The Toledo dial is also a little busy, but the case is just so voluptuous, rekindling the image of the old Cioccolatone.

If you think vintage VCs were daring (which they were!), look at Rolex's vintage output. It makes their current models look utterly staid and unadventurous.

Oh no, I understand that the Privee Collection is finished to a higher standard and was marketed as their marquee pieces. I checked out a friend's mono-poussoir with the THA movement and thought it was nice, but that I would rather have other watches for the money. I have a Cartier with the Piguet movement (though not CPC) and it is, suffice to say, badly made and finished. I think there are still several brands apart from Lange and Patek that could exceed Cartier.

As for Cartier servicing, seems it is a lot cheaper in the States. In Asia, it can run 2 to 3 times the amount you mentioned. I was quoted the price you mentioned to change the battery on my Cartier quartz travel clock!

I handled the Altiplano with the subdial at 4 o clock, but disliked it for the huge 43mm case and some imperfections on the dial printing. I find the latter unacceptable on a watch of this price level. Also played with the Double Jeu and some of their öne-off piece uniques, but just find their designs a little gauche. I agree with you that several other brands produce gaudy designs. But Piaget just seems to only produce ugly watches. Of course this is my opinion. I think their movement finishing is fine for the price but when I buy a watch, the dial matters just as much.

Of course, the AP 2120 was a special product made just for the ref 15202, so I figured they would put in more effort. It is also more "in-house" now, if that matters.

Thank you! I love the Reverso 1931 and it is one of the watches I wear quite regularly. I commissioned a bespoke light tan gator strap a few days back for it so the Casa *** strap is no issue. It is not small at all, in fact I find it a tad long. But I have always preferred vintage watch sizes even though I have a large wrist. The Tribute case is even thinner than the original Reverso.

Cheers,

B

 

[in stitches]

RAYZ-ACE - very classy. and like dino said, its only a matter of time....

 

[RAYZ-ACE]

Thank you , i'm very happy with it, i dont expect to have many watches, but i wouldn't mind another one some day.

^
Congrats and enjoy it. It might be your first watch...but once you get bitten by the bug...there is a second, third, fourth etc.

, i actually did look into vintage watches, but i'm not the most knowledgeable about watches and wouldn't know what to look for to ensure it was good condition or authentic, but thanks I'll def check Ermeto next time.

It's a good start. Kudos!
Vintage Movados are pretty cool if you collect vintage. Check out the Ermeto purse watch.

Thank you , i wanted a watch that would age well, and i could wear for both casual and dressy

RAYZ-ACE - very classy. and like dino said, its only a matter of time....