The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[tim_horton]

Didn't someone say there are four stages of watch appreciation?

1. Knows little about watches, and loves Rolex because they are a status symbol
2. Learns a little bit more about watches, and hates Rolex because it's too popular
3. Learns some more, and starts to appreciate Rolex
4. Learns even more, and once again loves Rolex because they are great watches with a rich history

Or something like that, I'm paraphrasing.

 

[Dino944]

For a company that is rightly credited with creating some of the most enduring classic watch designs, Rolex certainly isn't shy about churning out vast numbers of gaudy, trashy variations. The two-tones, the jewels, the mothers of pearl...

Sadly, even many of the Professional watches have been infected with bling - PCLs, jubilees, precious metals, shiny ceramics. @Andy57's side-by-side pictures of the GMTs illustrates this perfectly. And the current Daytona is positively dazzling at 50 yards.

This is not to discount the many things that Roles gets right. Nonetheless, I find it hard to take seriously the argument that Rolex have remained true to some pure ideal of no-nonsense does-what-it-says-on-the-tin watchmaking when this is the same company that gave us the Rainbow Cosmograph. In Everose.

Anyway, the debate over the kind of clientele that Rolex attracts reminds me of the infamous video of Mugabe's sons (admittedly, not exactly typical) pouring champagne over their watches a couple of years ago. At least one of the watches was in fact an horrifically tacky diamond encrusted RO, but the fact that the media almost exclusively reported the watches to be Rolexes says much about their perception in the wider public, I think.

I'm not into gem set watches, but lots of companies offer them including Patek, AP, and VC. The steel Nautilus is one of the most sought after watches in the world, but Patek offers it with plenty of bling too. I don't see these or most gem set watches being very popular in the US, but from what I hear they are popular in other parts of the world.

Actually, many of the bling factors you say have "Infected" the professional models from Rolex can be found on vintage Rolex professional models. The only relatively new change you mentioned is the ceramics. PLCs have been on Daytonas for nearly 30 years. Jubilee bracelets were an option on GMTs for many decades. I've also seen vintage Daytonas and Subs on Jubilees...back in the days when Rolex easily let people change dials or swap out bracelets. As for precious metals, Subs, Daytonas, and GMTs have been available in yellow gold for more than close to 50 years. Only in the last 20 years or so have they been available in white gold or rose gold. Personally, while I would prefer the center links to be brushed as it hides scratches better than polished links, but the only polishing I really wish they would refrain from is polishing the lugs on Daytonas. I just think the lugs look better with a brushed finish and again it hides scratches better. I do like the looks of the old aluminum bezels, but there is a purpose to the ceramics...to hide scratches and resist fading.

As for the clientele Rolex attracts, I don't think there is much a brand can do about that. Who knows, maybe I'm not the kind of client Patek, AP, or VC wants to have

 

[an draoi]

Welcome to the club! If the 47mm matches your style and you like the aesthetic than you won't be disappointed. My 1312
View attachment 1279177

? for the coordination of the stitching and the seconds hand.

 

[Thrift Vader]

There is though. a watch i am currently smitten with. It looks like something forged in another galaxy that fell to earth, and colored like burnt Titanium. Dark. but full of color. and all the Tech.
To me? Damn, this thing is unique. far removed from anything else.

It's a Casio Oceanus that i can't find on images. looks like something Starlord would get.
And at $2,500? It's a LOT of Casio.

Naw, it's different, maybe @LA Guy has seen it. future AF. but classic. OMG. want.

 

[jischwar]

? for the coordination of the stitching and the seconds hand.

Thanks! I thought it would be subtle enough and still bring the strap and watch together.

 

[an draoi]

If a GMT with a ceramic insert qualifies as "bling" then this is some strange new definition of the word with which I have been previously unfamiliar. ?‍♂️

Then perhaps you need to get out more.?

The vast majority of people would describe a Rolex as a piece of bling. The shiner and more ostentatious, the blingier. Of course, there is bling and there is bling, and the GMT is not the blingiest. But on the blingy scale you must admit that your lovely vintage model sits somewhere towards utilitarian and the jubilee model somewhat closer to Kardashian.

 

[double00]

hm, does that bark texture count as bling?

 

[johnvw]

When my Uber/Grab drivers have worn Rolexes, as today's did, they have invariably been polite and pleasant individuals. I think the brand has an undeserved bad reputation.

What do Uber rides cost where you are if Uber drivers can afford Rolexes?!

 

[LA Guy]

There is though. a watch i am currently smitten with. It looks like something forged in another galaxy that fell to earth, and colored like burnt Titanium. Dark. but full of color. and all the Tech.
To me? Damn, this thing is unique. far removed from anything else.

It's a Casio Oceanus that i can't find on images. looks like something Starlord would get.
And at $2,500? It's a LOT of Casio.

Naw, it's different, maybe @LA Guy has seen it. future AF. but classic. OMG. want.

I may have seen it - is it even offered outside of Japan right now? What is the model number to which you are refering, just to know that we are talking about the same thing.

 

[Thrift Vader]

It's an Oceanus Chronograph. But. . all the metal is dark. the face is dark. and it throws rainbows in light. the bezel has a Tartan x Carbon vibe. it radiates.
Not sure if you can get it yet. i can try to get pics. but the camera can't do it justice.
Casio just dropped a bad boy.

 

[LA Guy]

hm, does that bark texture count as bling?

Are we talking about the all gold Day-Date with the wood dial and the bark bezel and bracelet? In which case, yeah.... hard to argue otherwise. I do love something that over the top though.

 

[an draoi]

I'm not into gem set watches, but lots of companies offer them including Patek, AP, and VC. The steel Nautilus is one of the most sought after watches in the world, but Patek offers it with plenty of bling too. I don't see these or most gem set watches being very popular in the US, but from what I hear they are popular in other parts of the world.

View attachment 1279192 View attachment 1279193


Actually, many of the bling factors you say have "Infected" the professional models from Rolex can be found on vintage Rolex professional models. The only relatively new change you mentioned is the ceramics. PLCs have been on Daytonas for nearly 30 years. Jubilee bracelets were an option on GMTs for many decades. I've also seen vintage Daytonas and Subs on Jubilees...back in the days when Rolex easily let people change dials or swap out bracelets. As for precious metals, Subs, Daytonas, and GMTs have been available in yellow gold for more than close to 50 years. Only in the last 20 years or so have they been available in white gold or rose gold. Personally, while I would prefer the center links to be brushed as it hides scratches better than polished links, but the only polishing I really wish they would refrain from is polishing the lugs on Daytonas. I just think the lugs look better with a brushed finish and again it hides scratches better. I do like the looks of the old aluminum bezels, but there is a purpose to the ceramics...to hide scratches and resist fading.

As for the clientele Rolex attracts, I don't think there is much a brand can do about that. Who knows, maybe I'm not the kind of client Patek, AP, or VC wants to have

Oh, I'm quite aware that they're all as guilty as each other.

But the discussion was about Rolex and my point was that there seems to be this idea that they (more than others) have stayed true to an ideal of honest watchmaking. I'm sure it can be argued that, to some extent and in certain aspects, they have. But they also churn out a lot of gaudy tat aimed at a certain market (I am in full-on snob mode now). And even their "no nonsense" tool watches have become more ostentatious. Whether this is deliberate, e.g. with polished parts such as you describe, or as side effect of rational design changes, such as the use of ceramic bezels, the overall effect is a blingier watch. Perhaps that trend started even earlier than I realised, but it seems to be a continuing one.

To your last comment, I suppose they (and the other guilty brands) could stop producing these watches, but this would be at the expense of their bottom lines. So of course this will never happen. The public gets what the public wants, I guess!

 

[Dino944]

Is it not the reason one buys such things? to show and tell? is that not what happens here?

Yes, many do suffer. from over work. living in sub humane spaces, having a poor diet,societal pressures. envy, aspiration.pride. it's a terribly unhealthy lifestyle. of the office worker. the "Salary man". a culture where the elders pay for drinks, and the noobs get humiliated at every turn.
I have had to intervene. on a few occasions. and scold the ************* "managers".

-It's not an "Amusing fairy tale" if it is true.

For a large portion of the watch market. Brands are stepping stones. that bring with them Societal context. Rank.

The more expensive the watch? the more they clown others. and praise themselves. or pay for the night out. to receive praise. (Buy loyalty) but as said jackass basks in his own glory? the faces around look glum. they look at their watches. Their Watches. The most trusted tool they have. some with pride, some with shame.

At the behest of the Bartender, and the few noobs who need a distraction. I sing. or chat. as the resident Circus bear. The guy who stopped in to chill. but has to be an entertainer.

You throw words around.and misuse my own in reply.

However. the good folk on here who own Rolex find themselves in perhaps very different circumstances. good for you. enjoy what you like.

I am only here in the corner. looking at watches as what they mean to people.

What am i wearing when said events occurred? A 4 Dial Seiko Flightmaster Chronograph. unseen outside the Japanese Military.

I urge you to understand. that i look at things as an Anthropologist. The guy who studies people. And my feelings on the social attributes of a Brand do not correlate with how i feel about their quality and/or workmanship.
I simply dislike how marketing can create such a scenario. when quality is all around.
=without the hang ups, or the dated designs.

I buy watches (or other items) because I like them, and I appreciate the designs, the workmanship, and their history. I'm not an anthropologist, and I don't purchase items or avoid purchasing them because of the social attributes of a brand.

Your discussion about "over work. living in sub humane spaces, having a poor diet" has nothing to do with Rolex, Omega, Patek, etc. They didn't cause those conditions to exist. Those conditions have existed in various parts of the world long before their were wristwatch companies. So I have no idea what your point is.

Misused your reply? You bashed someone's idea of purchasing a Rolex Datejust because to you their designs aren't courageous enough and they don't inspire curiosity. Then you told a rather far fetched story in which you stereotyped Rolex owners as bad guys wearing poly blend suits, but you have an instantly special relationship with the Speedmaster wearer, because you complimented his choice of watch. You guys then buy each other drinks and it is a magical evening. All of which seemed like a cute fairy tale.

 

[LA Guy]

As for the clientele Rolex attracts, I don't think there is much a brand can do about that. Who knows, maybe I'm not the kind of client Patek, AP, or VC wants to have

Yes, and no. Brand image is carefully cultivated and protected.

For an example outside of watch brands, North Face was very wary to not become a lifestyle brand in the early 2000s, the reason being the trends come and go, and being perceived as a lifestyle brand rather than a performance brand would hurt their image with their core, outdoor activities oriented, audience. That has changed a bit recently, with editions specifically of classic 90s models, but they are still quite careful with their distribution, though not nearly as restrictive as they were in the early 2000s. They also wanted, for a very long time, to take away the license for North Face Purple Label, which is still only available through Japanese retailers, and is much "trendier". That seems to have passed though, as The North Face, like a lot of companies, have realized that they can control their brand image by distributing different products to different stockists, in different markets. Nike is probably the leader in this.

Hermes boutiques in Asia are notoriously undersupplied, and most likely, completely by design. I have a couple of chaine d'Ancre bracelets that I wear, and I got them really easily. Just pointed and clicked. In one case, I had to wait a bit longer because they had no more for internet only, and a bracelet had to be recalled from a boutique, and made sure that it was up to Hermes standards to sell. I have a Crescendo bracelet that is apparently being forged from rare silver in France, since the original delivery date was pushed back a few more months to about a year from when I first ordered it. But nonetheless, they were happy to do it. By contrast, sought after pieces like the silver Chaine d'Ancre are in notoriously short supply in Asia, and they go for $1000 over the North American retail price on the secondary market. I had to explain to some cousins living in Asia, that while Hermes is well respected in North America, excepting the Kelly and Birkin bags, there is no hype around the brand, not really, nor are there slews of teems who are interested in the jewelry and who could potentially devalue the brand.

LVMH also has some pretty ironclad agreements with retailers stocking their marquee brands.

Rolex is not the only watch company to be slow in understanding its customers and re-aligning itself in the market. Seiko, long seen as a mid-market brand outside of Japan (n Cantonese, there is a bit of a pun that transliterates "Seiko" to mean "Dead poor), decided to go the other way, and make their luxury product their core product for the North American market. I forget who wrote this, but there are horror stories of Rolex tossing very valuable vintage dials and slapping in a brand new one. Because, well, who wouldn't prefer a brand new dial?

That Rolex is pulling the accounts of so many authorized dealers may signal that they are trying to control their brand image more closely.

 

[Thrift Vader]

@Dino944
You might need to grab your Bi-Focals.

No Bashing Rolex here. not yet.

Points on design. and cultural perception. sure.