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RobinMA

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Must we be quite so sensitive? Relative to Rolexes and Pateks, yes the others are undesirable. I don’t think that is even disputable. Hell, even Breguets fall into that category. My AD regularly tries to rope me into buying a Breguet with 30%+ discounts. Compare that to the situation with getting any Rolex or Patek.

This is a dichotomous market. Display cases are filled to the brim with IWCs and JLCs and Zeniths and Tudors. Rolex and Patek cases are completely empty. Dealers try to force the former down your throat in order to have the privilege of buying the latter. You may not personally agree with that dynamic, but it is what it is.

Just look at secondary market prices. With a few specific exceptions, only Pateks and Rolexes are valued significantly above retail (multiples in many cases). Most other Swiss watches struggle to depreciate less than 15-20% after purchase.
Evidence proof of duopoly duality
 

Dino944

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Thanks for the info, Dino. I didn’t realize there was a rose gold version in the smaller 35mm size. I was only aware of the most common yellow gold round printing and white gold with blue printing and the 13 salmon dial. I had the chance to buy one of the 13 salmon dial 10 years ago but bought the regular yellow gold version instead. It is more rare, but I personally think the classic yellow gold version is the best and even the standard blue print dial is better.

The larger version certainly seems to come up for sale less often but it must wear gigantic. I’ve never seen one.

In any event, I don’t think the watch is worth 50k or more as Foo referenced. The movement is not all that special and the finishing is pedestrian. It also costs 4K USD to service nowadays according to what I have heard. And it doesn’t slide well under a cuff. It’s got a really slab-like profile.

Yellow gold is probably the most "Historically correct version." The only vintage ones I've seen from the 1920s were in yellow gold with the circular track. Personally, its a watch I like far more in yellow or rose gold than white gold. I've seen photos of the white gold version with a salmon dial, and it does nothing for me, so I would have gone for the pink gold or yellow as you did. The XL is a big watch, I tried one years ago. The size isn't unwearable, but it does push it further into the sports watch category, especially when one sees how much slimmer and smaller the vintage versions were.

Finishing isn't quite at Patek or Lange levels, but there is no denying it's a special movement. Before, a lot of collectors started to look more closely at CPCP watches and vintage Cartiers back in the early 2000's, the Tortue Monopoussior was the one Cartier that even some very brand conscious collectors I knew (who would only buy Patek, AP, VC, Lange, and occisionally FPJ) were interested in adding to their collections, because of the movement and the interesting case shape. Value is something everyone has to decide for themselves. $50K isn't cheap, but it doesn't sound so bad for a relatively rare watch with a THA movement, when you have people paying $100K or more for a 5711, but the market says that's what they are. Cheers!

Vintage Tortue MP
1642333194701.png


Vintage Tortue on the left, CPCP on the right.
1642333324132.png
 

Journeyman

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White gold CPCP Tortue Monopoussoir for sale in Australia for about USD$47,500:


4132-2-1.jpg
 

RobinMA

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Yellow gold is probably the most "Historically correct version." The only vintage ones I've seen from the 1920s were in yellow gold with the circular track. Personally, its a watch I like far more in yellow or rose gold than white gold. I've seen photos of the white gold version with a salmon dial, and it does nothing for me, so I would have gone for the pink gold or yellow as you did. The XL is a big watch, I tried one years ago. The size isn't unwearable, but it does push it further into the sports watch category, especially when one sees how much slimmer and smaller the vintage versions were.

Finishing isn't quite at Patek or Lange levels, but there is no denying it's a special movement. Before, a lot of collectors started to look more closely at CPCP watches and vintage Cartiers back in the early 2000's, the Tortue Monopoussior was the one Cartier that even some very brand conscious collectors I knew (who would only buy Patek, AP, VC, Lange, and occisionally FPJ) were interested in adding to their collections, because of the movement and the interesting case shape. Value is something everyone has to decide for themselves. $50K isn't cheap, but it doesn't sound so bad for a relatively rare watch with a THA movement, when you have people paying $100K or more for a 5711, but the market says that's what they are. Cheers!

Vintage Tortue MP
View attachment 1737809

Vintage Tortue on the left, CPCP on the right.
View attachment 1737811
it is a nice watch but bordering on customer wear for gentlemanly gentlemen.
 

am55

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Yellow gold is probably the most "Historically correct version." The only vintage ones I've seen from the 1920s were in yellow gold with the circular track. Personally, its a watch I like far more in yellow or rose gold than white gold. I've seen photos of the white gold version with a salmon dial, and it does nothing for me, so I would have gone for the pink gold or yellow as you did. The XL is a big watch, I tried one years ago. The size isn't unwearable, but it does push it further into the sports watch category, especially when one sees how much slimmer and smaller the vintage versions were.

Finishing isn't quite at Patek or Lange levels, but there is no denying it's a special movement. Before, a lot of collectors started to look more closely at CPCP watches and vintage Cartiers back in the early 2000's, the Tortue Monopoussior was the one Cartier that even some very brand conscious collectors I knew (who would only buy Patek, AP, VC, Lange, and occisionally FPJ) were interested in adding to their collections, because of the movement and the interesting case shape. Value is something everyone has to decide for themselves. $50K isn't cheap, but it doesn't sound so bad for a relatively rare watch with a THA movement, when you have people paying $100K or more for a 5711, but the market says that's what they are. Cheers!

Vintage Tortue MP
View attachment 1737809

Vintage Tortue on the left, CPCP on the right.
View attachment 1737811
The vintage is stunning. Is there anything in the modern collection or plans that approach its proportions?
 

ronscuba

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Must we be quite so sensitive? Relative to Rolexes and Pateks, yes the others are undesirable. I don’t think that is even disputable. Hell, even Breguets fall into that category. My AD regularly tries to rope me into buying a Breguet with 30%+ discounts. Compare that to the situation with getting any Rolex or Patek.

This is a dichotomous market. Display cases are filled to the brim with IWCs and JLCs and Zeniths and Tudors. Rolex and Patek cases are completely empty. Dealers try to force the former down your throat in order to have the privilege of buying the latter. You may not personally agree with that dynamic, but it is what it is.

Just look at secondary market prices. With a few specific exceptions, only Pateks and Rolexes are valued significantly above retail (multiples in many cases). Most other Swiss watches struggle to depreciate less than 15-20% after purchase.
30% off discount on a brand new Breguet ? Hmm, I think I might have to pay a visit to your AD.
 

Scuppers

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Interesting, here's another one from Hodinkee:

View attachment 1737813

Although I do prefer the (much cheaper) vintage MP. The visual complexity warrants the bulge, I can't unsee the Tank as the ideal form factor for time only no seconds dial.
Very well may be the same watch. As far as i can recall, Cartier only produced 3 of this period and i believe each was slightly different (dimensionally).
 

am55

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White gold CPCP Tortue Monopoussoir for sale in Australia for about USD$47,500:


4132-2-1.jpg
In the same theme: I'm not a fan of the real thing (they look quite plasticy and the proportions, particularly the lugs, feel quite off) but this is a gorgeous photo:

 

TheFoo

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In the same theme: I'm not a fan of the real thing (they look quite plasticy and the proportions, particularly the lugs, feel quite off) but this is a gorgeous photo:



The main problem with most independents is that make really ugly watches (e.g. the above). They tend to be maximalist or at very least different looking merely for sake of looking different.
 

mak1277

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The main problem with most independents is that make really ugly watches (e.g. the above). They tend to be maximalist or at very least different looking merely for sake of looking different.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don’t though. If they make something traditional they’ll get ripped for being derivative or uninteresting.
 

9thsymph

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The main problem with most independents is that make really ugly watches (e.g. the above). They tend to be maximalist or at very least different looking merely for sake of looking different.

...merely for the sake of...? A bit cynical. To take your point at face value, though, difference for difference’s sake IS a thing folks find interesting (if they have grown weary of various humanistic dogma...platonic ideals blah blah...)? I don’t like the watch pictured, but I can easily understand the attraction to it for the precise reasons you critique it. I also don’t think I’m reducing the criticism to “it’s all subjective...” - different metrics for different philosophies of beauty though...?
 

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