The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[RJman]

Hardly the same. MSRP 10k from any established high end brand gets you exactly what you get from Rolex: a steel watch with an in-house movement, machine finished.

JLC's gold watches are basically machined finished without any haute horology touches at a price point against competitors (Breuget, ALS etc) which offer haute horology as a starting point. There really isnt any value proposition there

I didn’t think there was much difference in finish quality between JLC and Breguet. Some even used JLC movements

to be fair I am less than a watch dabbler only using one (s)watch.

 

[Deeky]

I didn’t think there was much difference in finish quality between JLC and Breguet. Some even used JLC movements

Most brands have probably used JLC movements at some point. But it doesn't usually mean that brand literally took a JLC movement and planted it in their own case and left it at that - often they were improved on worked on.

Furthermore looking at these two movements (in Breguet's entry level classique and JLC's entry level Master ultra thin in gold), I would say the Breguet is far better finished - the price difference between is only about 2.5-3k

 

[reidd]

What would you consider peak Ferrari?

Peak Ferrari would need to be a front engine V12. The ultimate example is probably the 250 GTO. There's a reason they are worth $50ish million a piece.

 

[Dino944]

What would you consider peak Ferrari?

A peak Ferrari has to have a manual transmission. My answer would be the 288GTO/F40.

As someone that grew up around Porsches in the 1980s 944, 911s, 930, 928S...the 959 seemed to be the supercar that had no equal. Then the F40 was released. Yet, reviews of the day and the few people I've met who have driven an F40 said there is nothing like it. The 959 was far more technologically advanced, yet, was so perfect some said it was boring to drive. While Ferrari went a completely different route, and made a car that some have said was the most exciting and fun car they had ever driven.

I don't need the car that is the fastest off the line, or the highest top speed, I'm happy to have something to go on a fun drive on winding roads with a few friends, with a restaurant or ice cream shop as the destination/reward for some good driving.

That being said, the head tech at the shop I go to, who has owned a several Ferraris (still owns an F12 and a 355), and driven and worked on Ferraris from the 1950s to every supercar except a LaFerrari, said the best Ferraris to own, easy to live with, things don't go wrong, and they are fun to drive are the 550/575 Maranello, the F430, the 328GTB/GTS, and to a lesser degree the 360.

 

[Nickd]

Peak Ferrari is either a Dino or a 550/575, depending on what you are after from them. I doubt I’ll ever be in a position to own either so I’m happy enough with my 996. And I get that the air cooled 911s are a more engaging drive, but mine still feels like a 911, just one less likely to throw you into a hedge.

 

[Dino944]

Ferrari has served different paradigms over the years. Traditionally, road-going Ferraris were always GT-ish sports cars. Then they introduced mid-engine road cars and things bifurcated between hard-edged sports cars and much cushier front-engined grand tourers. So, what’s more Ferrari? If going by Enzo’s original vision, “peak” Ferrari road car is something equally sporty, elegant and comfortable—not an F40.

Well when Ferrari and Porsche started, racing and road rules were such that someone could drive one of their cars to the track and and race on weekends, and drive the car on the road during the rest of the week.

Enzo's choices were always his 2+2 models, such as the 250GTE 2+2, or the 400i. Those were cars he actually owned. However, his true interest was racing and the road cars were just built to finance his racing. He didn't care that much about his road cars and generally didn't care much for the people who bought his cars.

Still, some of his statements about his cars and clients were entertaining.
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines."

"I build beautiful cars for young men, that only old men car afford."

 

[RJman]

"I build beautiful cars for young men, that only old men can afford."

LOL the man was lucid! It really does sound like a true peak car connoisseur has to own a Ferrari or 11.

 

[alpyigit]

OF is becoming my favorite piece for hot & humid weather.

ALS Odeysseus on (firm) offer with a mid range Lange (annual calendar et al) bundle. Clearly an arbitrage vs buying both at grey. But frankly can not digest jumping through hoops to buy a watch or any consumer product.. The balance between being kind of imposed to feel grateful for the opportunity of spending USD 100k vs the joy of wearing Odeysseus does not leave me in peace..

 

[Texasmade]

LOL the man was lucid! It really does sound like a true peak car connoisseur has to own a Ferrari or 11.

Must be peak 9111.

 

[Viral]

Hardly the same. MSRP 10k from any established high end brand gets you exactly what you get from Rolex: a steel watch with an in-house movement, machine finished.

JLC's gold watches are basically machined finished without any haute horology touches at a price point against competitors (Breuget, ALS etc) which offer haute horology as a starting point. There really isnt any value proposition there

Again, based on your reasoning the Submariner is a rip-off…..the Speedmaster would actually fit what you’re describing.

But, I now see your bias so it doesn’t matter anymore

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

Small timers, all of you. A true gentleman of leisure does not sully his hands and his feet with the manual labor of driving.

 

[TheFoo]

I didn’t think there was much difference in finish quality between JLC and Breguet. Some even used JLC movements

to be fair I am less than a watch dabbler only using one (s)watch.

JLC ebauches were once common amongst most of the top tier makers. But those makers heavily reworked and finished those movements. JLC has never tried to compete at that level.

 

[TheFoo]

Again, based on your reasoning the Submariner is a rip-off…..the Speedmaster would actually fit what you’re describing.

But, I now see your bias so it doesn’t matter anymore

Not sure what is hard to follow here. The Sub is better at different things than something like a gold JLC calendar chronograph, whereas the JLC is inferior in every critical respect compared to similar priced watches from better makers. Its only advantage is the relatively low cost of its complications—which is precisely why pumping up the price to pay for a gold case doesn’t make a lot of sense.

As a sport watch, Rolexes are generally nicer than Omegas. Sturdier build, better QC, better finish, better materials, etc. A Speedmaster is a phenomenal watch and even more phenomenal when considering the relatively low price, but one only need handle it side-by-side with a Submariner to immediately tell that the latter is much more substantial and expensive feeling.

 

[lexmann]

Not sure what is hard to follow here. The Sub is better at different things than something like a gold JLC calendar chronograph, whereas the JLC is inferior in every critical respect compared to similar priced watches from better makers. Its only advantage is the relatively low cost of its complications—which is precisely why pumping up the price to pay for a gold case doesn’t make a lot of sense.

As a sport watch, Rolexes are generally nicer than Omegas. Sturdier build, better QC, better finish, better materials, etc. A Speedmaster is a phenomenal watch and even more phenomenal when considering the relatively low price, but one only need handle it side-by-side with a Submariner to immediately tell that the latter is much more substantial and expensive feeling.

"JLC is inferior in every critical respect". Sorry. Totally disagree.

 

[TheFoo]

"JLC is inferior in every critical respect". Sorry. Totally disagree.

Uhh okay.