The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[TheFoo]

From what I've read (reddit, rolexforums, watchuseek etc), Bvlgari is ready stock, GS is ready stock, Chronomaster is ready stock, VC Overseas can be bought (as long as one is not aiming for a blue dial, and apparently some ADs/boutiques are still willing to take deposits for a blue dial), and getting a 11.59 chrono should also land you on a waiting list for 37/41mm ROs (not blue dials).

This is a pretty big diff from here, where basically everything is on backorder with a 6 month - 1 year wait (even LVMH brands) or just outright impossible without massive purchase histories/bundling.

I don’t track Bulgari at all, so no idea there. As mentioned, GS is not hard to get—the Soho boutique in NYC is fully stocked and can’t seem to even give away watches to the zero customers that ever walk in. Despite some niche online hobbyist interest, I have a hard time seeing a long-term, significant presence for GS in the U.S.

Grey market for Chronomaster is demanding premiums over retail and I haven’t seen any sitting around.

VC Overseas? Not obtainable. Need a “relationship”. Not sure who is telling you otherwise, but if he is able to simply walk into an AD and buy one he’d be an idiot not to given the immediate profit.

 

[am55]

From what I've read (reddit, rolexforums, watchuseek etc), Bvlgari is ready stock, GS is ready stock, Chronomaster is ready stock, VC Overseas can be bought (as long as one is not aiming for a blue dial, and apparently some ADs/boutiques are still willing to take deposits for a blue dial), and getting a 11.59 chrono should also land you on a waiting list for 37/41mm ROs (not blue dials).

Have you tried Bulgari Takashimaya? They had the full octo range last time I popped by.

You can get grey market steel Rolex full range from the first floor shop in the Mandarin Gallery, although at a premium. The Wisma ground floor also has SS Rolex to try (but not buy - the SA told me walk ins apparently will offer to buy everything in the store, and still get denied).

Anyway, not surprising given the price for a small house by Houston or even Sydney standards.

 

[Deeky]

Yea I tried Bvlgari boutiques (not ADs). They had basically everything but the blue dial in the satin finish. Most ADs only had the ceramic/sandblasted versions.

I mean, we all know it's possible to get any steel Rolex in the grey market but its just so crazy that even the traditionally less popular DJs/OPs cant even be gotten now with the purchase of a TT diamond ladies DJ. It's just how stupid the market in SG is right now

 

[Nickd]

From my local Rolex AD it looks like Rolesor DJ can be got easily at retail, as can ladies OP and DJ. Everything else requires an expression of interest or a trip to the grey market.

I don’t see much if any commentary on this, but it seems like Tudor are filling in the nice but attainable, usable everyday watch position that Rolex had 20 years ago and before, but even then the grey market is trying to ask a premium for Tudor watches (like the GMT I posted) that are easy to get at retail.

 

[TheFoo]

From my local Rolex AD it looks like Rolesor DJ can be got easily at retail, as can ladies OP and DJ. Everything else requires an expression of interest or a trip to the grey market.

I don’t see much if any commentary on this, but it seems like Tudor are filling in the nice but attainable, usable everyday watch position that Rolex had 20 years ago and before, but even then the grey market is trying to ask a premium for Tudor watches (like the GMT I posted) that are easy to get at retail.

You can order a Day-Date or PM Datejust. They just aren’t available in stock.

 

[mak1277]

From my local Rolex AD it looks like Rolesor DJ can be got easily at retail, as can ladies OP and DJ. Everything else requires an expression of interest or a trip to the grey market.

I don’t see much if any commentary on this, but it seems like Tudor are filling in the nice but attainable, usable everyday watch position that Rolex had 20 years ago and before, but even then the grey market is trying to ask a premium for Tudor watches (like the GMT I posted) that are easy to get at retail.

I still feel like Tudor is a watch for enthusiasts...is that changing? Is the "general watch-buying public" starting to buy them?

 

[am55]

Yea I tried Bvlgari boutiques (not ADs). They had basically everything but the blue dial in the satin finish. Most ADs only had the ceramic/sandblasted versions.

I mean, we all know it's possible to get any steel Rolex in the grey market but its just so crazy that even the traditionally less popular DJs/OPs cant even be gotten now with the purchase of a TT diamond ladies DJ. It's just how stupid the market in SG is right now

The other thing is the Grab drivers. Numerically speaking almost all the Rolex I see is when I take a cab, especially in these videoconferencing times.

 

[Drek Galloche]

Buying Tudor means you have stopped dreaming and succumbed to mediocrity.

 

[Deeky]

The other thing is the Grab drivers. Numerically speaking almost all the Rolex I see is when I take a cab, especially in these videoconferencing times.

but 90% of those are the TT YG/SS models

Seriously though, I think I'm just going to give up on Rolex / AP as I don't foresee the market gaining some semblance of sanity in the next 3-5 years. I'd probaby save up a bit more to get VC's cornes de vache or Breguet's Marine chrono

 

[Drek Galloche]

Checked out Zenith Vintage chrono reissue yesterday and was surprised how small it looks. Small even for 1970s vintage style.
Interesting Zenith Defy range of watches. Tonn of Longines, Blancpains and Breitling available. Some are very cool. Glaschutte reddish sunburst dials are gorgeous.

 

[Deeky]

GO's panomatic line is really good. But unreasonably and ridiculously thick, so will not consider buying one

 

[classicalthunde]

I actually dropped by Watches of Switzerland at Hudson Yards yesterday with my family to get out of the heat.

First of all, I am such proud dada. Upon entering the store, my 5-year-old daughter pointed at the Patek and Rolex signs and exclaimed: “They have Patek watches and also Rolex! Let’s look at Patek first!”

There were very few Pateks to look at. Obviously, there were no Nautilus or Aquanaut models, but also nothing else other than a few ladies watches. No Calatravas, no smaller complications (annual calendars, travel time, etc.), nothing. Ninety percent of the display slots were empty. This was true last time I was at Wempe in midtown and the Soho Watches of Switzerland as well. Point is, Pateks in general are running scarce.

The Rolex section was even more ridiculous. All slots were empty except for TWO watches, including a 34mm rose gold Datejust. I don’t remember the other, but it was also a smaller ladies model.

Every other brand’s display area was fully-loaded (e.g. Vacheron, Omega, IWC, JLC, etc.). They had like six Speedmaster moon watches ready for purchase, including a couple of the outgoing version.

In some ways, this is to be expected. Perhaps, the broader watch consumer market is simply catching up to more serious collectors, who began heavily consolidating their collections on Patek and Rolex about ~10 years ago. Before then, it was more common for enthusiasts to dabble across the different makers. These days, it’s Patek, Rolex, independents, or you’re a beginner.

Will this change? For reasons discussed before, Patek and Rolex have unique appeal to collectors. The other brands from Richemont and LVMH tend to feel a lot more anonymous and luxury consumerist oriented. Hard to put a finger on exactly why, but one key element is that their marketing tends to feel a lot more forced and their watches feel a lot more influenced by marketing. In contrast, Patek and Rolex exude somewhat of a “we don’t give a **** what you want” attitude. This reflects their conservativism and reinforces an aura of permanence.

In short, increasingly few people have concentrated collections of watches from the likes of IWC or JLC or even Lange. People who buy those watches tend to be more casual about collecting or will never buy more than one or two. Anecdotally, most of my friends and co-workers who have nice watches from such brands tend to have only that single watch, aren’t serious enthusiasts, and usually bought it because they saw an ad or think the brand is “cool”.

Given the underlying drivers, the current trend toward market bifurcation may be more secular than cyclical, unfortunately.

I think its interesting to see how the availability changes based upon location. The AD I've been popping my head around over the past couple of months is certainly within commute distance from NYC and had a decent number of Pateks on my last visit a couple of weeks ago including an Elipse, a 5196, a pair of 5227s, a 5396, a 5327, and a 5390 and a handful of ladies models that I'm not familiar with (they are undergoing a pretty big renovation, so working in a consolidated space and I believe the Patek case was set up for 12 or 16 watches total).

Their Rolex set up had 2 or 3 entire cases at the front of the store and probably 2 ladies models available in the whole thing. The SA mentioned that they were tripling their Rolex case foot print in the renovation, to which I asked 'what's the point if the cases are just going to continue to be empty?' and he then talked about how the size of your Rolex display played into your allocations

 

[pmeis]

Checked out Zenith Vintage chrono reissue yesterday and was surprised how small it looks. Small even for 1970s vintage style.
Interesting Zenith Defy range of watches. Tonn of Longines, Blancpains and Breitling available. Some are very cool. Glaschutte reddish sunburst dials are gorgeous.

The Zenith A384 reissues feel small to handle, but the case shape gives it s bigger presence on wrist IME. They are strange watches, but I love them.

 

[Nickd]

I still feel like Tudor is a watch for enthusiasts...is that changing? Is the "general watch-buying public" starting to buy them?

If the number of places you can get them is anything to go by then I’d say they are pretty mainstream now. I don’t think you’d give up space for other brands for an enthusiast

Buying Tudor means you have stopped dreaming and succumbed to mediocrity.

I’ve already got watches by other manufacturers, I just don’t want something as obvious as a Rolex for a watch I’d intend to travel with.

I do appreciate I’m talking to myself though as I’m pretty sure you are actually a contrarian bot.

 

[mak1277]

If the number of places you can get them is anything to go by then I’d say they are pretty mainstream now. I don’t think you’d give up space for other brands for an enthusiast

I guess I'm going by the fact that I've never seen anyone wearing a Tudor in real life, nor have I ever met anyone who's heard of them except for enthusiasts. I certainly don't think they have the general mainstream appeal that matches Omega, Panerai, IWC, or even Tag, frankly. I accept that I may be wrong though and that times are changing.

Also, I wonder how many places choose to carry Tudor vs. being gently asked to carry Tudor by their Rolex overlords.