The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Thrift Vader]

nvm

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

If I wanted to sell a ton of fakes I would absolutely become a member of an organisation against fake products, or even head it.

If a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[patrick_b]

If I wanted to sell a ton of fakes I would absolutely become a member of an organisation against fake products, or even head it.

Holy crap that's a saga!!

Call me a sucker but all of this is another reason to buy from an AD.

I bought my GMTII from an AD back in 08. Watch was in high demand but I even got a 10% discount (those were the days).

I also bought an SD from a pre-owned dealer around the same time. Looking back, I was very trusting but it also went well. I think I paid $5000 $4400 (just checked the old email) for the SD (anchor included ). My risk tolerance is much different now. I'm thinking it's AD or nothing for me these days. Taking a look at the new Speedy Pro this week. He typically offers 10% discount on non Rolex. Is the new Moonwatch in demand enough to go for MSRP these days?

@George Red I may hit you up for your AD's contact info. Want to talk to my local guy first. I bought a Pelagos from him a few years ago, maybe this purchase gives me a bit of leverage on an 116500 one day this century .

 

[Neville Southall]

Holy crap that's a saga!!



I bought my GMTII from an AD back in 08. Watch was in high demand but I even got a 10% discount (those were the days).

I also bought an SD from a pre-owned dealer around the same time. Looking back, I was very trusting but it also went well. I think I paid $5000 for the SD (anchor included ). My risk tolerance is much different now. I'm thinking it's AD or nothing for me these days. Taking a look at the new Speedy Pro this week. He typically offers 10% discount on non Rolex. Is the new Moonwatch in demand enough to go for MSRP these days?

@George Red I may hit you up for your AD's contact info. Want to talk to my local guy first. I bought a Pelagos from him a few years ago, maybe this purchase gives me a bit of leverage on an 116500 one day this century .

Sure thing. Happy to help.

 

[SirGrotius]

That sounds so shady to me, I couldn't even imagine buying from someone who claimed to head an anti-theft organization, haha.

That said, the Milgauss is awesome. Why did you lose interest in that particular piece vis-a-vis the Sub-uber-alles phenomenon?

 

[Dino944]

Speaking of Ferrari, even though it's arguably the most desirable and collectible car brand, it seems to have struggled to find a good co-branding partnership with a watch company.

The Ferrari/Girard Perregaux and then the Ferrari/Panerai watches never took off and usually sold for less on the grey/secondhand market than the regular versions. Then they had a go with Hublot but that ended last year, or the year before. I don't really pay any attention to what Hublot is doing, but I don't recall seeing anything about their Ferrari models.

I recently saw that Ferrari and Richard Mille have teamed up together - I wonder whether that will be a more successful collaboration?

Most car branded watches are fairly unimpressive. Maserati's AP, AMG IWC, Aston's JLC, Ferrari's Hublot/GP, TAG Porsche. Aside from what are often at best questionable designs, part of the problem may be that most car companies also offer their own cheap (a few hundred dollars) car branded quartz watches...which for some would be buyers of higher end car branded watches probably reduces the appeal of pricier ones. I love sports cars, but I have no desire to own a car branded watch, even if I own a car that has a respected brand offering one.

The closest I've seen to interesting car related, not car branded watches were the old Porsche Design watches made by IWC. They were not affiliated with Porsche A.G. (the car company), they were designed by F.A. Porsche (designer of the famed 911 and 904GTS) after he left his family's car company and started a design company in the mid 1970's that has designed everything from watches and sunglasses t to entire kitchens. The designs weren't for everyone but they were very innovative and the originals have become quite collectible.

 

[mak1277]

It's real. The seller is a member of an organization against fake products. They got speedmasters going for $1,500.
The local market is saturated with "I made it" watches.
I'll take that as a yes though. Thanks.
A Sub is going for the same as a datejust.

This conversation feels like deja vu. Nobody here is going to be convinced that a $5k sub is legit. It's just too stupid for someone to sell at that price to make logical sense. I suppose there is a 5% chance it's real and you could get a steal of a deal, but you're not going to convince anyone of that.

 

[Dino944]

Don't recall seeing much here about Grand Seiko, other than some remarks about ass-kissing from Hodinkee. GS announced 7 new models, including four more of their "seasons" editions that have GMT hands.

Not sold on the GMT hands with these dress-style watches. I tend to like the dials on the green and white of those models (first and fourth in the photo), but the 24-hour numerals kill it for me.

This one looks okay, if you can stomach a $59,000 (!) price tag:

View attachment 1562336

Not sure about this:

View attachment 1562338

No:

View attachment 1562339

Pretty underwhelming on balance. I was disappointed, as I have recently become pretty interested in some of Grand Seiko's offerings, specifically the SBGW231 and to a lesser extent the Snowflake, although something about the power reserve indicator on the dial bothers me. I was hoping these new models would be a little more interesting.

If you do some searching on the thread, years ago there were a lot more posts about GS. They make a very good quality watch, but I find most of the designs generic and I have no desire to own one. At one point I thought some of their chronographs (not the one in your photo) looked interesting for a sports watch...but when I tried it on and the winding crown and screw down pushers stuck out way too far to look good or be comfortable. Still, if you like GS you should do some research and check them out in person.

 

[NakedYoga]

If you do some searching on the thread, years ago there were a lot more posts about GS. They make a very good quality watch, but I find most of the designs generic and I have no desire to own one. At one point I thought some of their chronographs (not the one in your photo) looked interesting for a sports watch...but when I tried it on and the winding crown and screw down pushers stuck out way too far to look good or be comfortable. Still, if you like GS you should do some research and check them out in person.

Yeah, they have a ton of different models. I'm really only interested in a relatively classic-looking (or, "boring" according to my wife) dress style watch from them, and I really like that model I mentioned earlier. The same AD I've mentioned before, a few blocks from my office, is also a dealer for GS so I probably will check them out in person next time I decide to pop in. The spring drive movement fascinates me, too, although the model I like is not a spring drive. That new chronograph I posted above is not very attractive to me... reminds me of the Black Bay Steel & Gold Chronograph.

 

[Omega Male]

Most car branded watches are fairly unimpressive. Maserati's AP, AMG IWC, Aston's JLC, Ferrari's Hublot/GP, TAG Porsche. Aside from what are often at best questionable designs, part of the problem may be that most car companies also offer their own cheap (a few hundred dollars) car branded quartz watches...which for some would be buyers of higher end car branded watches probably reduces the appeal of pricier ones. I love sports cars, but I have no design to own a car branded watch, even if I own a car that has a respected brand offering one.

The closest I've seen to interesting car related, not car branded watches were the old Porsche Design watches made by IWC. They were not affiliated with Porsche A.G. (the car company), they were designed by F.A. Porsche (designer of the famed 911 and 904GTS) after he left his family's car company and started a design company in the mid 1970's that has designed everything from watches and sunglasses t to entire kitchens. The designs weren't for everyone but they were very innovative and the originals have become quite collectible.

Conversely -- and not something I'd ever really thought about -- are the watch branded clocks in the cars of any interest? Are they even mechanical? Obviously this can be taken to ridiculous extremes ...

The Bentley Bentayga: You Will Love The $160,000 Dashboard Clock Option - Quill & Pad

Bentley created the Bentayga as the ultimate SUV, whose base price of just about one-quarter of a million dollars does not include several important and very luxurious extras that include removable tablets ($7,155), replacement of wood trim with carbon fiber ($28,500) . . . and the automatic...

quillandpad.com

 

[patrick_b]

Most car branded watches are fairly unimpressive.

I feel the same. I think Rolex's affiliation with motorsports like IMSA, WEC, F1, etc. is the best form of collaboration. I think it would be very cool to own some of the artwork/advertising or other vintage collectibles from Rolex or even Tag's motorsports history but not one of the car manufacturer collabs.

f you do some searching on the thread, years ago there were a lot more posts about GS.

Ahhh, the days of Riva and medwed .

 

[BLAUGRANA]

This is absolutely hilarious, especially if you decided to buy it

LOL this can't be true

I was just kidding. I would actually feel guilty as I would fear something like that might put someone out of a job. I quite like my SA and her co-worker. If I lived closer I'd go and see them more often.

Don't recall seeing much here about Grand Seiko, other than some remarks about ass-kissing from Hodinkee. GS announced 7 new models, including four more of their "seasons" editions that have GMT hands.

Not sold on the GMT hands with these dress-style watches. I tend to like the dials on the green and white of those models (first and fourth in the photo), but the 24-hour numerals kill it for me.

This one looks okay, if you can stomach a $59,000 (!) price tag:

View attachment 1562336

Not sure about this:

View attachment 1562338

No:

View attachment 1562339

Pretty underwhelming on balance. I was disappointed, as I have recently become pretty interested in some of Grand Seiko's offerings, specifically the SBGW231 and to a lesser extent the Snowflake, although something about the power reserve indicator on the dial bothers me. I was hoping these new models would be a little more interesting.

I actually quite like the Seasons collection as an idea and like some of the dials. I think the Spring model (not sure what season, but the pink dial) from the first Seasons collection had a fantastic dial and I really appreciated the inspiration even though I'm not a fan of titanium. However as with that one and with these there are some things that get in the way. I just don't love their overall design language. Not a fan of the power reserves, the hand sets apart from the seconds hand, shape of the crown, the proportions and to a lesser degree the "GS" on the dial. Even the GMT function seems to "get in the way". I wouldn't mind getting one at some point because their dials are to me quite unique, but there's so much to change I'm not sure it'll ever happen.

 

[Dino944]

Yeah, they have a ton of different models. I'm really only interested in a relatively classic-looking (or, "boring" according to my wife) dress style watch from them, and I really like that model I mentioned earlier. The same AD I've mentioned before, a few blocks from my office, is also a dealer for GS so I probably will check them out in person next time I decide to pop in. The spring drive movement fascinates me, too, although the model I like is not a spring drive. That new chronograph I posted above is not very attractive to me... reminds me of the Black Bay Steel & Gold Chronograph.

I'm kind of with your wife on the appearance of their classic dress watch. I just look at them and ....yawn...they put me to sleep. I just find them too generic. But if we all liked the same watches it would be a boring place.

Conversely -- and not something I'd ever really thought about -- are the watch branded clocks in the cars of any interest? Are they even mechanical? Obviously this can be taken to ridiculous extremes ...

The Bentley Bentayga: You Will Love The $160,000 Dashboard Clock Option - Quill & Pad

Bentley created the Bentayga as the ultimate SUV, whose base price of just about one-quarter of a million dollars does not include several important and very luxurious extras that include removable tablets ($7,155), replacement of wood trim with carbon fiber ($28,500) . . . and the automatic...

quillandpad.com

I don't think most car guy care enough about the clock in their cars. I have lots of car friends (its my spring summer hobby) and many don't care about wristwatches or clocks at all. Some can have a $150,000 + cars and wear a $50 watch. Even the guys I know who have very nice cars and like watches (Rolex, Patek, AP, Omega, Tag)...most are interested in the cars for the car's performance. I don't know any who really care about the clock in the car or who would spend a lot for a premium car clock.

 

[Dino944]

I feel the same. I think Rolex's affiliation with motorsports like IMSA, WEC, F1, etc. is the best form of collaboration. I think it would be very cool to own some of the artwork/advertising or other vintage collectibles from Rolex or even Tag's motorsports history but not one of the car manufacturer collabs.

Agreed. Rolex, Heuer, and others involved in motorsports did some great work, and I like their advertising and watches of the past. IIRC, Mario Andretti has an all 18Kt gold Heuer gave him when he raced for Ferrari or some other F1 team. That was back before there was anything like co-branding cars and watches. They were a sponsor and they gave the drivers their watch to wear.

 

[Journeyman]

It's real. The seller is a member of an organization against fake products. They got speedmasters going for $1,500.
The local market is saturated with "I made it" watches.

This conversation feels like deja vu. Nobody here is going to be convinced that a $5k sub is legit. It's just too stupid for someone to sell at that price to make logical sense.

+1. I'm pretty sure we had a similar conversation in this thread a while back, and that it involved Thrift Vader at that time, too.

Japan has some good deals on second-hand watches but, unless prices are shockingly lower outside the usual watch-selling hubs of Tokyo (Ueno, Shinjuku, Nakano) then you may get a good deal but you're not going to get a Sub for $5000 or an Speedy for $1500.

When I'm in Tokyo (usually for a month once a year, but not over the past year, for obvious reasons) I like to visit a few second-hand watch dealers and have a look at things. A few years back there was even a "watch fair" held by second-hand dealers in the function space on the top floor of one of the department stores in Ginza with all sorts of second-hand watches - ridiculously collectible and expensive ones and very ordinary ones.

Japan is a big luxury market and there are a lot of brand-name watches and other luxury goods there, such as Louis Vuitton and Hermes, as well as camera gear, that can be bought at good prices on the second-hand market. But the prices are not ridiculously lower than the rest of the world, to the point that you can score a discount that is 50% or more greater than prices elsewhere in the world.

Perhaps Thrift Vader is getting "mate's rates" on a watch because he knows the guy, or perhaps he's getting a good deal because the person doesn't want the hassle of selling to a second-hand dealer for a percentage of the value.

But I can say that, as a rule, you will find good deals in Japan but you simply will not find deals that are that ridiculously good. Many Japanese watch dealers sell over the internet and ship overseas and so they are sensitive to international, as well as domestic prices and they would not see the point of pricing their products at 50% of international prices.

Edited to add: I guess that it's possible that you might be able to pick up a well-used version of the now-discontinued, less-loved Speedmaster "reduced" with the automatic movement for something like $1500 in Japan. But I just can't see that you'd find a Speedy Pro at that price.