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TheFoo

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(Fallible) inference to the best explanation.

It’s possible to enjoy what one has while also enjoying the prospect of something different or new.

Or maybe enjoyment is more like a sliding scale for me and less like a toggle switch.

OK. Sounds like a certain @chocomallo is due a trip to the Minor Burns Ward.

Or perhaps he could save himself a journey and just run it under cold water for a few minutes.

Let me be clear. I don’t think anything is wrong or worse about using A&S alum vs. A&S.

I was responding to a poster who had been bragging about his “better” degrees, job, physical height, etc.
 

Phileas Fogg

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Getting ready to head out for some crisp, fresh air.

D19C53B4-4A65-4BB3-957B-F83E309723E7.jpeg
 

9thsymph

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I don't get this. Is it an insult?

Haha...Yeah, I'm actually not really sure.

For context, though, the "joke" about tailoring was written by the fellow pictured below and triggered by me facetiously challenging his self-appointed superiority (look, nothing is really going to solve this kid's problems. For example, you can put an asshole baby yoda in a rubinacci suit and have his wife lend him a patek, but you're still going to end up dealing with an asshole baby yoda on an allowance. This guy hates himself and tries to buy, flex and argue away his issues. His "research" and "experience" [quality, price, pedigree, etc] help him rationalize to himself and disguise to others his disorders, but there are never reasonble ends to discussions with this guy [well, unless you confirm his bias, I suppose]. Therapy would probably be the best option, staying off the internet might be another, but let's just slap a gold daytona on that wrist, enjoy the insanity, and call it a day):

IMG_3425.jpg
 

NakedYoga

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It’s possible to enjoy what one has while also enjoying the prospect of something different or new.
Isn't that why many of us continue to come back to this place?
 

TheFoo

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Haha...Yeah, I'm actually not really sure.

For context, though, the "joke" about tailoring was written by the fellow pictured below and triggered by me facetiously challenging his self-appointed superiority (look, nothing is really going to solve this kid's problems. For example, you can put an asshole baby yoda in a rubinacci suit and have his wife lend him a patek, but you're still going to end up dealing with an asshole baby yoda on an allowance. This guy hates himself and tries to buy, flex and argue away his issues. His "research" and "experience" [quality, price, pedigree, etc] help him rationalize to himself and disguise to others his disorders, but there are never reasonble ends to discussions with this guy [well, unless you confirm his bias, I suppose]. Therapy would probably be the best option, staying off the internet might be another, but let's just slap a gold daytona on that wrist, enjoy the insanity, and call it a day):

View attachment 1541951

Ooooooh. You’re one of the FNB degenerates. Like being an incel, but with clothes? Makes sense now.

I love how you guys have spun this elaborate, masturbatory fantasy about I somehow live off money from my wife. Oh man, if only.
 

9thsymph

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Ooooooh. You’re one of the FNB degenerates. Like being an incel, but with clothes? Makes sense now.

I love how you guys have spun this elaborate, masturbatory fantasy about I somehow live off money from my wife. Oh man, if only.

what is FNB? (anyone?)

i referenced a wife because you said your wife was buying you the watch as a present (and because another member then took that joke a bit further...haha...). no dark-web conspiracy here, just riffing on what's here in plain sight.

sick aviators, btw...i mean that
 
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TheFoo

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Reposted on Hodinkee this morning and apropos of our discussion around Patek, steel watches, discontinuing the 5711A, etc.:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/thierry-stern-patek-philippe-steel-watches-nautilus

Some candid and particularly foretelling commentary from Thierry Stern a couple years ago about constraining the Nautilus mania and protecting long-term brand value.

A few observations:

1. Kevin O’Leary is such a tool.

2. Rough math suggests the average Patek sells for ~$25-30K. That’s a lot of Calatravas and women’s Twenty-4s. Steel Nautilus is right in the heart of that price band too.

3. Titanium and platinum replacements for the 5711A would make sense given Thierry’s perspective. They allow Patek to keep selling Nautiluses while also stemming association with “ordinary” steel watches.
 
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radicaldog

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It’s possible to enjoy what one has while also enjoying the prospect of something different or new.

Or maybe enjoyment is more like a sliding scale for me and less like a toggle switch.

But see, now you switched from contentedness to enjoyment. You were a philosophy major, right? Remember your Aristotle?

Anyhow let me stop psychoanalysing you; I was mostly just honing my own coping mechanisms.
 

TheFoo

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But see, now you switched from contentedness to enjoyment. You were a philosophy major, right? Remember your Aristotle?

Anyhow let me stop psychoanalysing you; I was mostly just honing my own coping mechanisms.

Watches and clothes are sheerly about pleasure for me. So, if I can afford it, why not more?

Yet, I’ve never expected material goods to contribute to any level of durable happiness. You can’t buy the things you need for that.

So, strictly speaking, no, I’m never really contented materially. Like always wishing to be better at guitar or something. But how much does that matter to more fundamental happiness? Not a bit. Different axes of vastly different importance.
 

Dino944

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Remember when the oversized Offshore models were the only watches AP could sell? Back in the early/mid 2000’s. The regular Royal Oak models were considered cheesy, ugly stepchildren. But AP couldn’t move any dress watches even back then. They launched the Jules Audemars line, which was a total flop. And there was that weird oval-shaped model line too. Yuck.

Patek has never been in that sort of situation. Steel watches like the Nautilus have augmented sales, not so much cannibalized them, and the vast majority of Pateks sold are still gold/platinum dressy models.

Regarding what AP could or couldn't sell in the early to mid 2000s, had nothing to do with people thinking the original ROs were cheesy ugly step children. It had to do with size. The trend was moving toward much bigger watches. The "Jumbo" 5402 and its successors were always 39mm (which isn't overly large, but it's a reasonable size). However, in the 80's RO variations (except for Jumbos) and even Nautilus's went on a diet (ref 3800) and dropped to 36mm. In the late 90's into the early 2000s, the only RO's one could buy that were larger than 36mm were the Jumbo and the RO chronograph (both 39mm), and the PP offered the 3710 Comet or a 3711WG Nautilus. Size hurt their sales and limited interest. It wasn't until AP modernized the RO dual time and the RO Day Date (Owl), and gave us ref 15300 that most RO's were available in a more contemporary 39mm case. With Patek there were the 3710 and 3711 (in larger cases), but it really took the 3712A1 and the 5711/5712 to ignite tremendous interest in the Nautilus (which was also helped by speculators going crazy that the 3712A1 was cancelled after 1 year and there were rumors of no more steel Pateks, which of course wasn't true). So the main issue back at that time was the large watch trend...and companies like AP, PP and even VC (its 1st gen time only Overseas was only 37 mm, the chrono was 40mm) still making smaller more classic sized sports watches. So yes watches like the Offshores, IWC 3713, IWC BP, and other 42mm and larger watches were really in demand. Even mighty Rolex was getting a lot of flack for not offering watches that were larger than 40mm...it took a few more years before we would see Rolex offer the DSSD or the 216570 Ex2 with larger cases.

AP launched dress watches that just didn't interest people - the Millenary, the Jules Audemars, the Edward Piguet. They moved too far from their more classic looking dress watches of the past and it hurt them.

Patek has launched some clunkers that went nowhere, the 1996 Nautilus 5060 with smooth black dial and Roman numerals and its sibling on a strap with which had the addition of lugs and no ear on the left side of the case (the 5060, it transitioned into the original Aquanaut). There were other forgettable sports watches like their Neptune, and Sculpture watch. Personally, while I liked the Nautilus, I always thought Patek did a better job of designing dress watches than sports watches, but again, many of their dress watches during that same early to mid 2000s suffered from remaining too small...they just started bumping up Calatrava sizes to 37mm in around 2004/05
1611510139936.png



1611509638453.png

The first Nautilus on a strap around 1996....which was saved and transformed into the first Aquanaut (which back in the day wasn't revered as it is today).

As @chocomallo mentioned, the only reason Patek SS watch sales haven't taken over the bulk of Patek sales is that Patek intentionally limited the number sold. If they made more, they would sells more. We also have dealers that were pulling the now classic BS... "Well if you want a Nautilus, you need to buy a Calatrava, or other watch or jewelry you may not really want, so that you can have the so called privilege of buying a Nautilus from us." So on some level that may help sell a few extra Calatravas or other Pateks.

As I mentioned previously, a who knows and works in the watch industry said, over the last few years fewer and fewer people have been interested in gold dress watches. Most want steel sports watches that fit a more casual work environment and lifestyle. Sure there will always be people that want a gold Calatrava or complicated Patek, but how many people can afford them, and eventually, one has to wonder can Patek and their dealers survive offering Calatravas and dress watches when that isn't what most consumers want today. Maybe they can ride it out, maybe they can't...we will just have to see.
 

tim_horton

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Interesting that the demand for gold watches is dropping because people are dressing more casually. Too bad. I have a (rose) gold dress watch (with black dial) that I have no problems wearing with casual clothing. It doesn’t feel awkward at all. Maybe it’s because of its relatively small size, or because I’ve had it for so long that I don’t feel self-conscious about it.

A solid gold Day Date would be awesome. Love that watch when I’ve seen it. It would take me quite a while to get used to wearing it though.
 

ValidusLA

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@tim_horton I agree on the size issue Re: gold watches. I have a 67 GP Chronometer in solid, put it on a burgundy strap, and a 68 omega Deville in plate on a tan strap. Wear both casually with no issue.

I dont really understand the obsession with giant watches. I am a big guy with big wrists, and my speedy is as big as I would ever want.
 

taxgenius

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I am seriously considering the IWC IW500714 and I am able to get it from an AD at a discount. Are there similar watches I should be considering?

iw500714.png
 

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