The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Ambulance Chaser]

I am struggling to understand all of the vitriol directed towards the GM market on some of the watch forums presently. While not relevant to me, if someone is prepared to pay +50% or +100% for a hard to get watch are they not filling a void?

I think it's a product of frustration that desirable SS sports models that could be going to collectors are instead ending up in the hands of grays. This is part of the system that @Texasmade described, and any anger should be directed toward Rolex and the ADs instead. Don't hate the player, hate the game as the saying goes.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

^ I get it. But why should Rolex, or watch collectors in general, be any different from collectors of in any other category. True collectors have to compete with speculators for art, cars, etc. I get it that watches are somewhat different in that they roll right out of the factory and are immediately gobbled up into the gray market or hoarded by an AD for reasons stated above.

when Ferrari rolls out a limited edition it hand selects those who will be offered the vehicle first. It’s usually people who are Ferrari enthusiasts who then sign a contract that they will not sell the vehicle in its first year of ownership and that Ferrari has the right of first refusal in any future reselling of that car.

of course we are talking about cars which can cost >$500k and not a $13k watch, but it is interesting how at least one sought after brand handles such matters concerning limited supply vs. abundant demand.

 

[mak1277]

I think given the current economic environment, Rolex is probably feeling pretty good about its decision not to ramp up production.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

^ I get it. But why should Rolex, or watch collectors in general, be any different from collectors of in any other category. True collectors have to compete with speculators for art, cars, etc. I get it that watches are somewhat different in that they roll right out of the factory and are immediately gobbled up into the gray market or hoarded by an AD for reasons stated above.

when Ferrari rolls out a limited edition it hand selects those who will be offered the vehicle first. It’s usually people who are Ferrari enthusiasts who then sign a contract that they will not sell the vehicle in its first year of ownership and that Ferrari has the right of first refusal in any future reselling of that car.

of course we are talking about cars which can cost >$500k and not a $13k watch, but it is interesting how at least one sought after brand handles such matters concerning limited supply vs. abundant demand.

The contemporary art market is similar in some ways to the car and watch markets, but different in important respects as well. For access to pieces by hot artists, there is a clear pecking order: Museums and other art institutions at the top, followed by "name" collectors, followed by collectors with a prior purchasing history with the gallery. I'm behind those three groups, so I've accepted that I will have a difficult time buying certain artists.

Like the car market you mentioned, most galleries have instituted a right of first refusal to prevent flipping. But the art market has two significant differences. First, art galleries represent artists directly and are not under the same kinds of pressures to sell as car and watch dealers. Sure, they have to worry about artists leaving for a more prominent gallery, but they can hold pieces indefinitely and don't have to offload pieces that aren't selling. Second, art is not fungible--except for editions, each piece is unique. You may hate a piece that I love, and vice versa. Art is therefore much less liquid than cars and watches, where a Ferrari is (nearly) identical to another Ferrari and a Rolex Daytona is identical to another Rolex Daytona.

 

[NakedYoga]

But why should Rolex, or watch collectors in general, be any different from collectors of in any other category. True collectors have to compete with speculators for art, cars, etc. I get it that watches are somewhat different in that they roll right out of the factory and are immediately gobbled up into the gray market or hoarded by an AD for reasons stated above.

Agreed. I'm more of an "aspiring" watch collector as it were, and I have nowhere near the knowledge, history, or understanding of probably 99% of the other people posting on this thread, but this idea of gatekeeping in certain subcultures is always interesting to see. I commented above elsewhere about the firearms community, and this gatekeeping issue applies there too, to some extent.

With watches, or anything else really, why is a "true collector" any more important or why would they have any superior claim to a particular watch as compared to any other person? What if I just like the way a Daytona looks and neither know nor care about its history, the craftsmanship, etc.? At the end of the day, it is a watch with a functional purpose (in contrast to paintings and other artwork), but to many it is also art, so it's not "just a watch."

 

[Scuppers]

The contemporary art market is similar in some ways to the car and watch markets, but different in important respects as well. For access to pieces by hot artists, there is a clear pecking order: Museums and other art institutions at the top, followed by "name" collectors, followed by collectors with a prior purchasing history with the gallery. I'm behind those three groups, so I've accepted that I will have a difficult time buying certain artists.

Like the car market you mentioned, most galleries have instituted a right of first refusal to prevent flipping. But the art market has two significant differences. First, art galleries represent artists directly and are not under the same kinds of pressures to sell as car and watch dealers. Sure, they have to worry about artists leaving for a more prominent gallery, but they can hold pieces indefinitely and don't have to offload pieces that aren't selling. Second, art is not fungible--except for editions, each piece is unique. You may hate a piece that I love, and vice versa. Art is therefore much less liquid than cars and watches, where a Ferrari is (nearly) identical to another Ferrari and a Rolex Daytona is identical to another Rolex Daytona.

Contemporary art is the excuse of many to hold a certain standing.
Established art - all schools - is the excuse of many to posture.
And I’m an art collector.

 

[Scuppers]

I do find the whole watch collector argument amusing.
Do we collect cuff links? For that matter, ties? Sports jackets?
They are just things we buy and wear - internally justify, yup. End of days, just consumerism and posturing.

 

[Thrift Vader]

I Collect face Masks.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I do find the whole watch collector argument amusing.
Do we collect cuff links? For that matter, ties? Sports jackets?
They are just things we buy and wear - internally justify, yup. End of days, just consumerism and posturing.

there are people who collect cuff links and ties as well. It’s just that the market is not there. One can collect anything, but if there’s not a market, then it’s just a collection. People collect hubcaps too.

 

[Texasmade]

there are people who collect cuff links and ties as well. It’s just that the market is not there. One can collect anything, but if there’s not a market, then it’s just a collection. People collect hubcaps too.

There was this one Japanese NY Yankee player who liked to collect Appreciation. I remember reading that he had a collection of like 10,000 movies.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

There was this one Japanese NY Yankee player who liked to collect Appreciation. I remember reading that he had a collection of like 10,000 movies.

given worldwide shelter in place orders, I’d say that’s much more useful than a watch.

 

[double00]

There was this one Japanese NY Yankee player who liked to collect Appreciation. I remember reading that he had a collection of like 10,000 movies.

matsui! when he came to oakland he gave porno to all his teammates and reporters. but, he ran out because of all the international press and then promised to bring more for everybody

 

[MZhammer]

Okay, let's change the rules to set a $30K limit, which is realistic for three watches. Assume that you're buying a new watch at MSRP from an AD (no discount because you're a regular customer or because you're buying from a gray) or less if the watch is readily available at a discount.

Are we requiring these to be new? If not, and 30k was my limit and it had to go to 3 watches, then I'd stick with 3 I already have that I bought pre-owned for under $30k in total.

1. Casual - AP Royal Oak Chrono 26300st Navy dial
2. Sport - Rolex 14060 Submariner
3. Dress - Cartier Tank Basculante in steel.

Spoiler

If we're doing no budget and must be new new then I'd keep it pretty similar (I can get NIB Blancpains still)

1. Casual - AP Royal Oak 15202
2. Sport - Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Bathyscaphe Limited Edition For HODINKEE
3. Dress - Cartier Crash

 

[Scuppers]

And it has begun: Watchbox have reduced the prices on a few Journe’s. Still have a few crazy prices, but it’s reasonable to believe they will drop, too, sooner or sooner.

 

[Jerkstore]

Just bought my first Rolex and decided to go down the internet Rolex rabbit hole. Checked out the Rolex forums and my god is that just Niketalk for watches. I'll just stick to checking pics on instagram.