The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Dino944]

Naw, The Dweller is real.

The large beautiful Watches are pocket watches or desk clocks fitted into a case with a band. Genius.

Imagine in a Bar. salary man says " I got a Rolex".
"Me Too".- and it's the most beautiful thing seen on a wrist.

If that Double Red Sea Dweller is real and not stolen, then you aren't getting it for $5K! Do some research, you will see what they actually go for.

As for the other re-cased Frankenwatches, not my taste but enjoy.

 

[Thrift Vader]

Japanese are finicky. Scratches TOTALLY devalue any item. also the stringent regulation of resellers. gives me confidence that it is legit. which would be a great watch for @Purplelabel

The wrist clocks? So, So tempting. you know me. I'd love to wear one when out drinking.or even at work.

 

[dauster]

So, Rolex is punishing the natural behavior of Supreme style hype that they are creating with their distribution strategy at the same time that they are benefiting greatly from it?

Honestly, they should just do an official Supreme collaboration. The unofficial one commanded ungodly prices already, some sold for $50K, and they must be worth even more now.

In a way yes. But then look at Panerai and Omega (and a bunch of others) that have basically all watches readily available and "nobody" wants them... The scarcity makes them desirable...

 

[Purplelabel]

Was going to PM some links to legit affordable Rolex's. but i guess @Purplelabel is not accepting pm's right now. . .

try now! Accidentally turned off PMs

 

[LA Guy]

In a way yes. But then look at Panerai and Omega (and a bunch of others) that have basically all watches readily available and "nobody" wants them... The scarcity makes them desirable...

Oh, I don't think that their plan is a bad one, though I personally will not partake. I just wonder at their dislike of flippers and feel that their punishing ADs for selling to someone who might flip is silly. You want to control things at the point of distribution, but then let the secondary market do its thing. Part of the formula is to let the secondary market go insane.

Incidentally, if you think that the markups on the secondary market for Rolex is crazy, you should see those for Nike Zero tier sneakers and for Supreme. I've seen some crraaaazy prices out there, for some crazy products that bear the Supreme box logo.

 

[Thrift Vader]

Supreme is Shite.

But the Down Jacket keeps me warm. (and my car full of feathers)

 

[Dino944]

Japanese are finicky. Scratches TOTALLY devalue any item. also the stringent regulation of resellers. gives me confidence that it is legit. which would be a great watch for @Purplelabel

I get that they might be finicky, (I worked in retail in college and remember that they usually wanted untouched/new in box items if possible), but that is basically a rare/historic model. Scratches don't turn that into a $5K item. If its legit and the dial is original and hasn't been swapped modified to be red etc, then anyone could buy it and sell it somewhere else in the world for say $40K-60K. Sorry, but if its legit, it will sell for a lot more than $5K. Hell, these days you can't even buy a later more common version of Sea-Dweller for $5K.

 

[Thrift Vader]

*Checks bank account. . .

Nicer Dwellers go for around 9k.

 

[dauster]

Oh, I don't think that their plan is a bad one, though I personally will not partake. I just wonder at their dislike of flippers and feel that their punishing ADs for selling to someone who might flip is silly. You want to control things at the point of distribution, but then let the secondary market do its thing. Part of the formula is to let the secondary market go insane.

Incidentally, if you think that the markups on the secondary market for Rolex is crazy, you should see those for Nike Zero tier sneakers and for Supreme. I've seen some crraaaazy prices out there, for some crazy products that bear the Supreme box logo.

Maybe they are really doing nothing about the flippers but have to publicly appease the normal watch guys/ buyers and say they hate flippers... I really don't know but the narrative that the ADs and watch companies are pushing hard against flippers and grey dealers is definitely a narrative they keep pushing.

 

[Dino944]

*Checks bank account. . .

Nicer Dwellers go for around 9k.

Saying Nicer Dwellers go for around $9K seems to negate that this is a Double Red Sea-Dweller. It would be like you showing me a photo of a Toyota 2000GT and me saying its a $15K car because one can buy a decent used Camry for that amount. The Double Red SeaDwellers on the low end have asking prices of around $40K. In addition, something to keep in mind Double Red SeaDwellers have appreciated in value. When new they were probably a few hundred dollars. So these watches aren't devalued by scratches, they appreciate regardless of scratches.

 

[LA Guy]

I get that they might be finicky, (I worked in retail in college and remember that they usually wanted untouched/new in box items if possible), but that is basically a rare/historic model. Scratches don't turn that into a $5K item. If its legit and the dial is original and hasn't been swapped modified to be red etc, then anyone could buy it and sell it somewhere else in the world for say $40K-60K. Sorry, but if its legit, it will sell for a lot more than $5K. Hell, these days you can't even buy a later more common version of Sea-Dweller for $5K.

The Japanese resale market is very strange. There are very legit stores in Tokyo that have prices that are hard to explain. A pretty standard vintage datejust (1603) for $6.5K, no papers or anything, beside one that is nearly identical for $2.5K, a couple of years apart. A Sub for $5K, and nearly the same, not noticieably better one, without any special features (no underlines, red script, whatever) for $10K. I saw a Mitsoloshi dial (not the original), and definitely not represented as such) going for $7K, more than some pretty good condition subs. It is still quite an insular society, and the prices are not always in line with international prices. I don't know that much about watches, but some things in fashion go for pennies, and other things, that might seem very pedestrian to us, for over retail here.

 

[Dino944]

The Japanese resale market is very strange. There are very legit stores in Tokyo that have prices that are hard to explain. A pretty standard vintage datejust (1603) for $6.5K, no papers or anything, beside one that is nearly identical for $2.5K, a couple of years apart. A Sub for $5K, and nearly the same, not noticieably better one, without any special features (no underlines, red script, whatever) for $10K. I saw a Mitsoloshi dial (not the original), and definitely not represented as such) going for $7K, more than some pretty good condition subs. It is still quite an insular society, and the prices are not always in line with international prices. I don't know that much about watches, but some things in fashion go for pennies, and other things, that might seem very pedestrian to us, for over retail here.

If you guys think its authentic, not stolen, not a redial (which would in the Rolex would crush its value) etc, and that it will only go for $5K ...ok. I guess I'm just rather surprised that it would be selling for so little in Japan. I tend to think of Japanese (not trying to stereotype) as rather serious collectors in the world of collectible watches. This is a significant watch. Its not the same as say a Datejust of which litterally millions have been produced. DJs are nice watches, but asking prices are all over the place, and are generally just based on age and condition. There really isn't anything drastic in the collector world that bumps a specific model up above all other DJs. While a Double Red Sea-Dweller is worth far more than a modern or recent 5 digit Sea-Dweller as it is historically significant to the Rolex world as it was the original Sea-Dweller, and their first production watch with a helium escape valve. It was also only produced for a few years as a "Double Red" where it says both Sea-Dweller and Submariner on the dial in red. Rolex eventually dropped the name Submariner from its dial and it simply became the Sea-Dweller and it said it in white. Furthermore, I would think that someone there would say, why not buy this watch, take a trip to Europe or the US and sell it for a huge amount more than one paid for it?

Anyway, it would be interesting to see what it eventually sells for...although I guess we won't know it sold for someone to keep or someone to bring to Europe/US to flip for a lot of $$$$.

 

[LA Guy]

If you guys think its authentic, not stolen, not a redial (which would in the Rolex would crush its value) etc, and that it will only go for $5K ...ok. I guess I'm just rather surprised that it would be selling for so little in Japan. I tend to think of Japanese (not trying to stereotype) as rather serious collectors in the world of collectible watches. This is a significant watch. Its not the same as say a Datejust of which litterally millions have been produced. DJs are nice watches, but asking prices are all over the place, and are generally just based on age and condition. There really isn't anything drastic in the collector world that bumps a specific model up above all other DJs. While a Double Red Sea-Dweller is worth far more than a modern or recent 5 digit Sea-Dweller as it is historically significant to the Rolex world as it was the original Sea-Dweller, and their first production watch with a helium escape valve. It was also only produced for a few years as a "Double Red" where it says both Sea-Dweller and Submariner on the dial in red. Rolex eventually dropped the name Submariner from its dial and it simply became the Sea-Dweller and it said it in white. Furthermore, I would think that someone there would say, why not buy this watch, take a trip to Europe or the US and sell it for a huge amount more than one paid for it?

Anyway, it would be interesting to see what it eventually sells for...although I guess we won't know it sold for someone to keep or someone to bring to Europe/US to flip for a lot of $$$$.

I know nothing about this watch, and believe you. I;ve also seen some not terrific condition early Daytonas in cases for ridicukous sum. My only point was that sometimes things go for much, much less in Japan than in other places. In my short time here so far, I've found that the same watch (I've been looking mostly at Omegas, IWCs, and Rolexes of various types from the 60s-70s, mostly), that the highest prices are in the UK (for the same model, same stated condition) about the same in the EU and North America, and considerably cheaper (for IWCs, often a factor of 2-3) in Japan. I saw a yellow gold IWC from the early 60s, full set, mint condition, sell at a Japanese retailer for $2.5K. Then, and maybe I am just seeing things, but I saw the same watch, with the same paperwork, on sale, a few months later, on Chrono24 for over 2x the price, from an EU retailer. So, I guess that there is some arbitrage that some dealers do take advantage of.

Again, I don[t know that much about watches, but certainly, this is the way that vintage works. And part of the value that the reseller provides is peace of mind. But there are people who go through estate sales in the US, picking up what seems to the owners to be "pretty decent" vintage clothing, that has some obscure historical value to a niche group (which is basically collectors of anything, really) and selling them for many multiples of what they picked them up for.

Re. watches on Japanese sites - I doubt that most westerners could properly search those sites, or go in person to Tokyo or Osaka. The language barrier is significant, just for starters.

 

[BLAUGRANA]

I would think it would be somewhat easy to control flipping, but it would require buying aftermarket watches and then being very strict with ADs. From what I understand the latter is already the case, but I'm guessing the former isn't. And even if they buy aftermarket pieces that could still put the ADs in a bind if the ADs best customers' are themselves the flippers.

 

[Thrift Vader]

I just type what i want to find in the search bar. and if i want to buy? ask my wife to read it to me first. but you guys got google for that.

Really, I have nothing to gain in the long term from talking shite.

what i see is how i say it. Japan is awash with Rolexes. the market is full of Oysters, Datejusts,and Subs. because the culture is to get one.

then? they hit the used market. and it hits my radar.