The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[LA Guy]

Sorry man, ragging on other people's style and purchases in very disrespectful ways has been the norm in most of the threads in this forum and the mods and admins didn't do ****. Well perhaps once when Fok told that kpop meme guy " **** you." And yea they kept repeating the same things for years. And you're one of them so don't play the innocent little girl. This is off topic so PM me if you got a personal issue.

Maybe it's a language issue, or maybe it's a culture issue, or a bit of both. For example, the idioms in the post above: "don't play the innocent litle girl" sounds very awkward to a native English speaker, and definitely sounds like something that was transliterated from another language. I can't be sure, of course. In any case, some points in your post above definitely points to a certain cultural tone-deafness.

I generally just let things go, but I know, from reports, etc... that more than just a few people find your online persona offputting. I really wish that I didn't have to write this post, but I've mentioned this a few times before, and you don't seem to have gotten the message to maybe tone it down a bit.

Just as an example of the tone-deafness, that Kpop meme guy and I actually have a good relationship. The "**** you" was not meant maliciously. It's a friendly "Yeah, whatever you prat. Go *************," between people who are used to teasing one another. We have met in person and had a good time (at least, I thought so.) Thre are certain things that point to that particular post of mine not being 100% serious, like the fact that I posted in immediately after posting an actual explanation/half apology. I'm not sure that I can explain it adequately if you don't get it.

I think that the best thing to do, if you are clearly not understanding the nuances of a culture or language, for whatever reason, is to be unfailingly polite. I know that I am fastidious about this in Spanish and French forums and social media. Though I can wrote conversationally in both languages, there are things that are over my head, and so I just make sure to stay respectable by any standard.

 

[LA Guy]

@Riva - Here is a super simple set of guidelines:

1) If someone is asking whether they ought to get something, if you have something negative to say, phrase it as your opinion, preference, and then suggest something else that you feel that that person might like (aka in the same style. price range, etc...)
e.g. "I've seen that in the metal, and while opinions may vary, I didn't love the finishing on it nor the size of the subdials. Have you looked at X other watch, which has the same look and feel and is in the same pricerange but which I feel is better for Y reasons."

2) If someone has already bought something, and it's obvious they like it, simply say "congratulations". Or nothing. Having no opinion is fine as well.

3) Make sure to be more positive than negative, in the aggregate.

 

[am55]

Maybe it's a language issue, or maybe it's a culture issue, or a bit of both. For example, the idioms in the post above: "don't play the innocent litle girl" sounds very awkward to a native English speaker, and definitely sounds like something that was transliterated from another language. I can't be sure, of course. In any case, some points in your post above definitely points to a certain cultural tone-deafness.

I generally just let things go, but I know, from reports, etc... that more than just a few people find your online persona offputting. I really wish that I didn't have to write this post, but I've mentioned this a few times before, and you don't seem to have gotten the message to maybe tone it down a bit.

Just as an example of the tone-deafness, that Kpop meme guy and I actually have a good relationship. The "**** you" was not meant maliciously. It's a friendly "Yeah, whatever you prat. Go *************," between people who are used to teasing one another. We have met in person and had a good time (at least, I thought so.) Thre are certain things that point to that particular post of mine not being 100% serious, like the fact that I posted in immediately after posting an actual explanation/half apology. I'm not sure that I can explain it adequately if you don't get it.

I think that the best thing to do, if you are clearly not understanding the nuances of a culture or language, for whatever reason, is to be unfailingly polite. I know that I am fastidious about this in Spanish and French forums and social media. Though I can wrote conversationally in both languages, there are things that are over my head, and so I just make sure to stay respectable by any standard.

This is off subject to watches so spoilered.

Spoiler

In defense of tuan Riva, aside from any personal considerations (I do think Indos are very direct even by US standards) the forum implied moderation style is vastly different from those who are more civil in nature, which I always assumed was a feature.

Take a look at Hacker News' guidelines: "Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. [...] Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [...] Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work [...] Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say."

All of these are criticisms that could be applied to many posts on this thread, and Dan Gackle and his team would have immediately acted on such posts.

On the contrary, this forum prefers a "tough skin" approach; you have your pub analogy but it isn't prominently displayed nor does it come out at the first or second offense (look how long you took to express your views of Riva's style). Instead, members are encouraged to "ignore" those that displease them (whether actually pressing the button or not taking the troll bait).

My take on why this forum has persisted in its lead of online fashion discussion, aside from first mover advantage and your personal connections to the industry, is that this looser moderation is generally more welcoming to members (by tolerating more of them) and more appropriate to the relatively snarky, ego-driven fashion industry (a snark which I think of as a result of insecurity from great sensitivity, common with artists). However the death of many a good thread in recent years has led me to question that assumption.

HN is famous for being relatively devoid of pretty much everything you complained about in your two posts, precisely because it has such aggressive moderation. For a long time it was the place to read about and discuss tech/Valley news as a result. I still go there for a quick search when I need references or some real life experience of a product, technology, or company; it is for better or worse the tech world's global "pub" and there is nowhere like it. I'm not sure the same can be said of SF if it cannot accept substantial parts of the fashion world and their quirks. And conversely many frequent posters are now staying away due to the tone. Perhaps it is time for precise guidelines with more aggressive moderation?

 

[Riva]

@Riva - Here is a super simple set of guidelines:

1) If someone is asking whether they ought to get something, if you have something negative to say, phrase it as your opinion, preference, and then suggest something else that you feel that that person might like (aka in the same style. price range, etc...)
e.g. "I've seen that in the metal, and while opinions may vary, I didn't love the finishing on it nor the size of the subdials. Have you looked at X other watch, which has the same look and feel and is in the same pricerange but which I feel is better for Y reasons."

2) If someone has already bought something, and it's obvious they like it, simply say "congratulations". Or nothing. Having no opinion is fine as well.

3) Make sure to be more positive than negative, in the aggregate.

Ok, so the next time that Kpop guy posts something completely irrelevant and personal just to annoy people I should press the report button and you'll give him a wink? Trying to see how things work here since I'm obviously missing some guidelines.

No 2 seems to be the complete opposite in the other threads. So different rules for different crowds? Speaking of which in my case I have no issue if someone tells me I just bought somehing crappy.

 

[LA Guy]

This is off subject to watches so spoilered.

Spoiler

In defense of tuan Riva, aside from any personal considerations (I do think Indos are very direct even by US standards) the forum implied moderation style is vastly different from those who are more civil in nature, which I always assumed was a feature.

Take a look at Hacker News' guidelines: "Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. [...] Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [...] Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work [...] Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say."

All of these are criticisms that could be applied to many posts on this thread, and Dan Gackle and his team would have immediately acted on such posts.

On the contrary, this forum prefers a "tough skin" approach; you have your pub analogy but it isn't prominently displayed nor does it come out at the first or second offense (look how long you took to express your views of Riva's style). Instead, members are encouraged to "ignore" those that displease them (whether actually pressing the button or not taking the troll bait).

My take on why this forum has persisted in its lead of online fashion discussion, aside from first mover advantage and your personal connections to the industry, is that this looser moderation is generally more welcoming to members (by tolerating more of them) and more appropriate to the relatively snarky, ego-driven fashion industry (a snark which I think of as a result of insecurity from great sensitivity, common with artists). However the death of many a good thread in recent years has led me to question that assumption.

HN is famous for being relatively devoid of pretty much everything you complained about in your two posts, precisely because it has such aggressive moderation. For a long time it was the place to read about and discuss tech/Valley news as a result. I still go there for a quick search when I need references or some real life experience of a product, technology, or company; it is for better or worse the tech world's global "pub" and there is nowhere like it. I'm not sure the same can be said of SF if it cannot accept substantial parts of the fashion world and their quirks. And conversely many frequent posters are now staying away due to the tone. Perhaps it is time for precise guidelines with more aggressive moderation?

I hate the guidelines on hacker news. But I will probably post something about the nature of this place, which is basically

"Whatever the mods, very carefully chosen, say, goes. No debate, no backtalk. If you disagree with a moderator decision, you may address it in private, but you are not owed any explanation.

The guiding principle of this place is that you must generally get along or at least coexist with others. There are no set rules on how to do that, but if you don't, it's probably you, and not everyone else."

 

[LA Guy]

Ok, so the next time that Kpop guy posts something completely irrelevant and personal just to annoy people I should press the report button and you'll give him a wink? Trying to see how things work here since I'm obviously missing some guidelines.

No 2 seems to be the complete opposite in the other threads. So different rules for different crowds? Speaking of which in my case I have no issue if someone tells me I just bought somehing crappy.

The general guideline is to read the thread and the audience. I can't teach you how to do that. I can only tell you when you are not. How you feel that you'd react to someone else criticizing you is irrelevant.

Please consider this part of the discussion now over, as I don't wish to debate it further, and will delete all posts about it from here on.

Thanks,

Fok.

 

[Riva]

I'm putting this in this thread as while the watches are Eu1050 each draconian custom charged me 38% more making these more than poor man's watches (even more so considering the resale). anOrdain has been making some news lately due to the true grand feu dials at a very low price and that they are only 7 Scottish artisans running the company. Well not that low if you consider a superior Seiko Presage enamel also costs the same but Seiko cheats using liquid enamel to achieve a more uniform surface. Plus Seiko's date window finishing is really dirty.

First impressions:

1) At 38mm it doesn't look small at all due to the cylinder case sides that's almost 13mm thick.
2) The enamel dial is acceptably grainy but some highly visible bumps when the reflection hits it at a direct angle shows that the enamel dial is obviously not as well finished as those Pateks.
3) Case quality is the same as Seiko Presage as well with also a fat caseback.
4) Limited editions of 300 pieces which makes it not so ltd. GS true LEs are 30 pieces or less.
5) They send you 2 straps but without quick release springs.

Final opinion: For the price it makes an interesting daily beater with the unusual enamel colors. Unfortunately the Minase I just acquired has the same exact dial color in lacquer. Both are described as blue but purple to my eyes. I should've gotten the pink dial. The red makes a nice replacement to the urushi Campanola that I sold earlier this year. Would be great for X-Mas season.

https://anordain.com

 

[Scuppers]

I'm putting this in this thread as while the watches are Eu1050 each draconian custom charged me 38% more making these more than poor man's watches (even more so considering the resale). anOrdain has been making some news lately due to the true grand feu dials at a very low price. Well not that low if you consider a superior Seiko Presage enamel also costs the same but Seiko cheats using liquid enamel to achieve a more uniform surface. Plus Seiko's date window finishing is really dirty.

First impressions:

1) At 38mm it doesn't look small at all due to the cylinder case sides that's almost 13mm thick.
2) The enamel dial is acceptably grainy but some highly visible bumps when the reflection hits it at a direct angle shows that the enamel dial is obviously not as well finished as those Pateks.
3) Case quality is the same as Seiko Presage as well with also a fat caseback.
4) Limited editions of 300 pieces which makes it not so ltd. GS true LEs are 30 pieces or less.
5) They send you 2 straps but without quick release springs.

Final opinion: For the price it makes an interesting daily beater with the unusual enamel colors. Unfortunately the Minase I just acquired has the same exact dial color in lacquer. Both are described as blue but purple to my eyes. The red makes a nice replacement to the urushi Campanola that I sold earlier this year. Would be great for X-Mas season.

https://anordain.com

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13mm is a little ridiculous as is customs at 38%!

Curious, the cotton shirt, how is that treated?

 

[Riva]

13mm is a little ridiculous as is customs at 38%!

Curious, the cotton shirt, how is that treated?

Hmm not sure. Bought the fabric and had it bespoken. Machine wash it like the polos.

 

[cyc wid it]

I did a little research, but came up lacking - why does the AP Royal Oak Day Date Moonphase trade for so relatively little?

 

[Scuppers]

I did a little research, but came up lacking - why does the AP Royal Oak Day Date Moonphase trade for so relatively little?

I’d hypothesis it is because of the relatively small case dimensions of 36/36.5mm and the juxtaposition of a contemporary casing meets classicism with in dial layout.
I love the the RO, far more than the Nautilus, and I wouldn’t touch the 25594. It’s just wrong.

 

[Journeyman]

I did a little research, but came up lacking - why does the AP Royal Oak Day Date Moonphase trade for so relatively little?

Possibly it's because the dial layout makes it look rather like an "angry" emoji:

(Pic taken from Chrono24)

 

[mimo]

Drunk owl. Can't be unseen.

 

[troika]

And it has a mustache!

 

[Dino944]

I did a little research, but came up lacking - why does the AP Royal Oak Day Date Moonphase trade for so relatively little?

As @Scuppers suggested it is a relatively small case by today's standards. Back in the mid 80s they also made a version without the moonphase, just the Day & Date. My dad had one and it was a handsome watch, but it was a real pain to set the day and date.

They did eventually revive the Day-Date version in a 39 mm case, and without the moonphase. As @mimo mentioned it was nicknamed the Owl. But it never enjoyed the popularity of the 15300, although it may also have been that it was more expensive than a 15300 and it was still using a JLC movement when a lot of people wanted inhouse movements.