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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mimo, Feb 12, 2016.

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  1. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Yes, I think we're saying the same thing on the glacial design evolution: it works - provided the design is coherent in the first place. A Submariner or a 911 looks good because it's always looked good. And even those conservative designers come out with the occasional innovation, be it an annual calendar or a Panamera (which is an ugly pic imho, but I digress). Where I think MB are so far off is in trying so many completely different styles at once as their starting point.

    As for Patek, for a hundred grand I'd want both, and done damn well!
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  2. culverwood

    culverwood Senior member

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    I can think of plenty of other things I'd prefer to spend a hundred grand on but I take your point.
     
  3. Winot

    Winot Senior member

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    My new grail watch:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Good design principles are pretty well-established, and not nearly as subjective as most people think.

    I like to see fresh designs that show use of well-refined concepts in new ways, and straying from convention is great as long as you know what you're doing. Unfortunately, design standards have declined quite a bit since personal computers eliminated the entry barrier. There's just a lot of incompetent, badly-drafted product (in all consumer industries) that won't stand the test of time, is just done to look different without any underlying purpose or reason, and doesn't constitute meaningful innovation.

    I believe the technical term for this stuff is "fashion bullshit". :)
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
    2 people like this.
  5. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    The new and old Lange 1s are the same size. I prefer the look of the old Lange 1's movement, but that's just me.

    Think the Lange 1 is a hockey puck? There is another German look alike that is more hockey puck than you can shake a stick at! :tounge:


    Erm, I think selling a frankenwatch as an all legit vintage speedmaster is a pretty massive screw up.

    The case didn't match the movement - that is second only to a fake/mismatched dial on the vintage watch screw up scale.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  6. bigbadbuff

    bigbadbuff Senior member

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    That's one incredibly good looking watch.
     
  7. firenze_rob

    firenze_rob Senior member

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  8. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member

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    Well, I think the Lang 1's peers include dressy time-only watches from Patek, Vacheron, Audemars, etc. Even if they lack the big date or power reserve indicator, they still serve the same general purpose: a simple dressy watch in precious metal. It could very well be that the Lange 1's additional features require a thicker movement, but that just means the design trade-off may not have been worth it.

    Of course this points to a bigger issue: the proliferation of "dressy" watch designs that sacrifice simplicity and thinness in order to be bigger, flashier and more noticeable. Not saying the Lange 1 is the worst offender, but there are far too many high-end watches that are now neither-here-nor-there. Too bulky and feature-laden to be a proper dress watch, yet too precious and dainty to be a proper sport watch.


    100% agreed. They are made to look like highly-fashionable "nice" watches (which is a shame, because often they are actually nice). Lots of newcomers seem drawn to them--and I would guess that is not by accident.


    If you ask me, in a sense, everything that is wrong with Patek today emanates from being more "designed" than they were before. In a way, just like with old Benzes, the less they try, the better. The oversized case and pointlessly fluted sides of the 5227 come to mind as an example of not leaving well-enough alone.

    That said, over the long march of the company's history, evolution has been slow and incremental. Hence, the long-term collectebility and value.


    Eh. At first blush, I like the way they look too. But then my mind kicks in and I get negative. Yes, they drew on their pocket watch, deck watch and clock history--but why the hell would you design a wristwatch with reference to any of those things? Only when you don't have a choice because you have no meaningful wristwatch tradition. Breguet has a similar problem. Put harshly, I can't help but feel both companies are faking things and their designs are ultimately romantic pastiches.

    Also, I guess I don't see how making something thicker for the sake of being thicker can be called good design. Seems intrinsically bad to me. Now, if you told me the thicker cases and movements allow a sturdier, more durable watch, then maybe there would be something to it--but even so, I don't see why such dressy watches need to be particularly sturdy or durable.


    Relatively speaking, not absolutely.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member

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    . . . why is Baume & Mercier in the thread title?
     
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  10. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member

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    The 5227 mentioned above. Someone please tell me a good reason for the flutes.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Winot

    Winot Senior member

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    SEO, apparently.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Winot

    Winot Senior member

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    It's the only annual:perpetual calendar I've seen that ticks my box as far as a clean/balanced dial is concerned.
     
  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member

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    Then we should add Frederique Constant, Tissot, and Movado for good measure.
     
  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member

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    Boom.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
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  15. bdavro23

    bdavro23 Senior member

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    Do you mean the scallops on the lugs?
     
  16. firenze_rob

    firenze_rob Senior member

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    The date is gigantic.
     
    2 people like this.
  17. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Senior member

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    Assuming you mean the GO?

    As regards that Speedy, I'll move closer to your point as regards how big a screw up it is, though apparently (and to my untrained eye) the difference in lugs is very subtle between the cases in question. The rest of the watch matched both the movement and the caseback while there were posts to the contrary. On top of that the crown was pointed out before it was even listed. There is also the consideration that it could have been a transitional piece, though upon further consideration and re-reading their post I'd say that's not very likely. So where I was going with it was that it wasn't as big a screw up as was initially maintained. On top of that the term "frankenwatch" tends to have more wrong with it in my personal opinion based on what I've seen out there, but I wouldn't say it isn't apt in this case. I guess for me a fake/mismatched dial or fake/mismatched hands/crowns are more noticeable therefore bigger screw ups. At the end of the day I think they handled it more than appropriately whilst even responding to comments that were out of order on their personal social media accounts. For me the commentary about the watch, which proved to be partially inaccurate in the end, along with all the additional commentary on Hodinkee in general seemed to me to go well overboard.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  18. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member

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    Extremely clever and elegant perpetual calendar display.
     
  19. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member

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    Yes. Patek calls it "fluting" in their literature.
     
  20. MZhammer

    MZhammer Senior member

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    I think this can be a bit of an misconception with Lange. Their thickest watches are generally the pieces that have multiple complications and are not designed to be "dress" watches in the purest sense whereas many of their contemporary offerings, while not being ultra-slim, are in line with the market. Also, many of their offerings are designed with movement aesthetics in mind, making them perhaps more likely to add a little bulk if there's a visual benefit.

    Dress watches
    Saxonia Slim - 5.9mm
    Saxonia - 7.3mm
    Patek Calatrava 5196G - 8mm
    1815 - 8.8mm

    In-house Chrono
    1815 Chrono - 10.8mm
    Patek 5170G - 10.9mm

    Plus, come on, look at this!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
    4 people like this.

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