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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mimo, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Well, first of all, I actually rarely wear a watch, as I've already explained, which is the reason for my latest project. That said, I like both the leather and the rubber strap. depending. But there is, at least on me, no gap. Maybe I just have an unusually flat wrist? I just don't know.
     

  2. sargeinaz

    sargeinaz Senior Member

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    Uh oh, thats no good. I have a tad over 6 inch wrist and am considering the classique size which is the original size and is supposed to be pretty small.
     

  3. Riva

    Riva Distinguished Member

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    With Reversos, try before you buy. Same as GP Vintage 1945. Beautiful watch but unwearable.
     

  4. culverwood

    culverwood Distinguished Member

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    I do not find a problem with them, my other two everyday watches are 42mm so maybe my wrist is the right size.

    As someone has suggested the Reverso comes in many sizes so trying them on and choosing the one that suits you best is a good idea.

    Personally I like the Ultra Thin and find that as soon as they add anything to the dial, including the seconds hand, they look worse and worse. I bought it from the boutique at the same time as some of the coloured dials were available (red and green IIRC) which may have been more exclusive but did not have the finish of the standard dial.
     

  5. Dino944

    Dino944 Distinguished Member

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    But that is also true of Patek. They've had some ugly watches over the years...but people will buy whatever they make because of resale value. Especially, when combined with sales people telling them stories of vintage Pateks at auction selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars or more (most newbies don't understand vintage watches are truly rare because people wore them and didn't save them. Therefore, a 1951 Patek Perpetual Calendar in mint condition, with box and papers, is rare. While today a huge percentage of Pateks end up in vaults and are never worn, so in 20+ years a NIB or LNIB Patek wont' be rare or difficult to find).
     

  6. am55

    am55 Distinguished Member

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    A counterargument might be that if the rate at which people who can afford Pateks and know about them are created is greater than the rate at which Pateks are created, then the market value of Pateks will increase. Patek deflation.

    To a great extent the enormous boom in luxury of the last few decades was driven by China. Not just the demand increase from 500 million joining the middle class, but the impact on global growth from centralising production there, efficiency gains, economies of scale etc. Globalisation.

    It's slowing, but a. there are still tons of people in the Chinese countryside, and a definite desire by Beijing to continue pulling them out, and low hanging fruit in infrastructure, education, etc.; b. even assuming the PRC drops back (hidden debt issues, trade wars, birth rate below replacement without immigration to compensate... the new middle class concentrating power and stopping the working class from joining them, as already seen with the gaokao reforms) whilst "emerging" markets usually remain submerged or sink lower in real terms, there are many more candidates for a new China around the world. Billions of people potentially growing the middle class again, flooding Parisian and Roman streets with their selfie sticks, and raiding LVMH's basement by the tour bus load.
     

  7. culverwood

    culverwood Distinguished Member

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  8. Riva

    Riva Distinguished Member

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    Agreed. Buying investments as opposed to timetelling tools or jewelries.
     

  9. Dino944

    Dino944 Distinguished Member

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    Sure more people could mean more Patek buyers. However, your counterargument about population growth and the boom in luxury ignores the fact that supposedly there is an entire younger generation that values experiences more than material objects...hence they would rather take more vacations, travel, and experience things, than buy a Patek.

    The younger guys in my office are more into tech gadgets and vacationing. They don't care about watches, cars, or bespoke clothing. One guys said, if he had my watches, he'd liquidate them and used the funds toward his mortgage. He wears an iWatch, and the other guys just wear basic nondescript quartz watches that are probably $50 or less.

    That being said, a mint condition 1951 Patek Perpetual Calendar will still be rarer in 20 years than any modern NIB Patek perpetual calendar, because their annual production is so much higher now than it was back in the 1950s, some pieces from the 50's were lost or damaged, and because so many current new pieces go directly from the dealer to current collectors' vaults.
     

  10. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I really don't get it either. My wife has a 6" wrist, and the Reverso ladies looks dainty on her. I'm sure that she could wear the classique with no issues.
     

  11. TheFoo

    TheFoo THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Guys. All watch brands are marketing exercises. At least Rolex and Patek have the actual history and track records to go along with the glossy advertising.

    It may be silly to buy watches as an investment, but it is even sillier to delude yourself into believing you are buying a "time-telling tool" or "mechanical innovation." These are obsolete mechanisms that are of purely nostalgic and romantic value. So, real history should hold a premium over fabricated history. That is why certain makes hold a special place above others and will continue to.

    Earlier I commented that we all should be Calatrava fans (or already are, even if we don't know it). My meaning was that if one understood the historical development of wristwatch design, they would see that so much of what we take for granted as standard or normal today actually is derived from the original Bauhaus-driven Calatrava of the 30's. Key example: anything other than Calatrava-style lugs are now called "fancy." We talk about the Nautilus and Royal Oak as design icons--well, if they are icons, the Calatrava is a legend.

    It is not by accident that so many serious enthusiasts ultimately become Patek and Rolex collectors, even after going through the beginning phases of hating them.
     

  12. Medwed

    Medwed Distinguished Member

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    Well it is a time tool for me. I use my watch much more often to tell time than my phone, matter of practicality really. Also there is some innovation like RM for example or Seiko spring drive. Watches are time telling design pieces, why not?
     

  13. TheFoo

    TheFoo THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    If used as a tool, even sillier. Why not buy a G-Shock or an Apple watch for a fraction of the price? You'd have a far better tool for far less money.

    In the same way, "innovation" in mechanical watch design is a problematic concept and can be seen as its own marketing exercise. What problem exactly does a Seiko Spring Drive solve? Actually it is the stupidest movement design possible, lacking the purity and challenge of a true mechanical movement, yet incurring all the associated penalties of cost, complexity, etc. You can glue a mitten to your forehead and call it innovation if you like, but I see it as something else.

    Richard Mille? Again, what kind of innovation is it to charge $100K for a time-only watch simply because its already obsolete technology is honed from titanium? Even stupider. Like a mitten glued to your forehead, but made of carbon fiber.

    Refinement and iteration make sense. A more durable, more reliable, more precise mechanical movement is a better mechanical movement. But be cautious when anyone talks of leaps forward in "innovation."
     

  14. Article 26

    Article 26 Senior Member

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    Well, let ignorance be today’s Trojan horse!

    Why on earth do we dare applaud scientific and engineering advancenent when specious self-fulfilment is so easily grasped?; why is it we seek covetable investment opportunity when Marksism will so happily cater for our desires...; time telling - obsolete??? It must be, been foretold by the wise one... ah, do we recall the Parker probe just launched... yes, time had zero to do with that...:as for bauhaus - i’m Actually a expressionist and bauhuas collector (dash of picabia for fun) and you assignment of those principles gives me cause to question your motivations. I feel Tristan Tzara would side with me.
     

  15. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Does anyone dispute that the Calatrava style - case, lugs, dial - are not iconic and perhaps the most influential style in wristwatches? Or that every second watch out there looks like a Datejust?

    Fine timepieces are just another luxury item at this point, and all luxury items sell primarily on the strength of the brand. All other considerations are of secondary importance.

    I'm generally happy to buy into brand narratives that resonate with me. Maybe it's because it's part of what I do, but I don't find marketing to be inherently deceitful or bad, as is the initial reaction of so many. In the case of Patek Philippe, "authentic history" is definitely the strongest part of the sell. I know that that is a case for Rolex as well, but there are other things about the branding that really turn me off. I hate the crown, I hate the typeface, and I am really not a fan of the bezels. I'm struggling to figure out what turns me off about Rolex so much, especially since IWC, one of my emotional favorites for a very long time now, doesn't have a disimilar marketing strategy or brand identity, it seems, and they make a ton of tool watches.

    That said, on a hobbyist forum, like this one, and the many watch forums out there, ubiquity (or perceived ubiquity) often is a turn off. Hobbyists love, more than pretty much anything, to have some secret knowledge that marks them as part of a tribe. How many times have we seen that outside of this thread?
     

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