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9thsymph

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Can you post some examples you do like, and some examples you do not like?

Examples of makers with a design aesthetic I generally like (...of course I could cherry pick and find MANY watches I don't like among any of their collections):

R. Rexhepi
Kari Voutilainen
F.P. Journe
Armin Strom
R. Pages

Examples of makers that make incredible [albeit silly looking] watches (...of course I could cherry pick and find a few watches I do like among their collections):

RM
De Bethune
Forsey
MB&F
Urwerk
Jacob & Co

And then there are folks I'm just sort meh about:
L. Ferrier
P. Dufour
R. Smith

I consider all these folks great watch makers for various reasons, so I'm really just talking about the immediate design language. For example:

Urwerk-UR-111C-Review-2.jpg

Nope!

MBandF-Legacy-Machine-Perpetual-Titanium-LM-Perpetual-TI-2.jpg

That's a "no" for me dawg.

On the other hand:
raulpagesherocrop.jpg


Yes, please!
 

pmeis

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Examples of makers with a design aesthetic I generally like (...of course I could cherry pick and find MANY watches I don't like among any of their collections):

R. Rexhepi
Kari Voutilainen
F.P. Journe
Armin Strom
R. Pages

Examples of makers that make incredible [albeit silly looking] watches (...of course I could cherry pick and find a few watches I do like among their collections):

RM
De Bethune
Forsey
MB&F
Urwerk
Jacob & Co

And then there are folks I'm just sort meh about:
L. Ferrier
P. Dufour
R. Smith

I consider all these folks great watch makers for various reasons, so I'm really just talking about the immediate design language. For example:

Urwerk-UR-111C-Review-2.jpg

Nope!

MBandF-Legacy-Machine-Perpetual-Titanium-LM-Perpetual-TI-2.jpg

That's a "no" for me dawg.

On the other hand:
raulpagesherocrop.jpg


Yes, please!
I get what you're saying here and have similar feelings, but I don't think that's much different than my views on main stream brands...
 

9thsymph

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I get what you're saying here and have similar feelings, but I don't think that's much different than my views on main stream brands...
True. I think people might accept designs from independents that they would otherwise be inclined to dismiss from the mainstream brands, by dint of novelty?
 

pmeis

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True. I think people might accept designs from independents that they would otherwise be inclined to dismiss from the mainstream brands, by dint of novelty?

A few months back, somebody on IG that I follow, who has a large following, was opining on why certain design traits seem to be so prevalent in the Indie scene, I think mainly he was complaining about the prevalence of the open work aesthetic and how it made for too much sameness in what should make for pretty varied design. I think there is actually a lot of variability in these openwork concepts, but I can see why someone might feel that way and pondered upon it myself.

This isn't just about the open-worked Indies, but I think it comes down to the mindset of who can usually afford these types of watches. It's mainly people who can and maybe already own a handful of GC Pateks, APs, and Langes. When you've had access and experienced those watches, you either double down on it and buy the next new dial treatment QP or you've had your fun and you start looking for the strange. I don't think there are that many Indies who can survive unless they really go for it design-wise which naturally can result in polarizing watches. With a lot of these companies limited in yearly output anyway, they only need to find a small percentage of the deep-pocketed buyers out there to succeed (at least for now).
 

9thsymph

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A few months back, somebody on IG that I follow, who has a large following, was opining on why certain design traits seem to be so prevalent in the Indie scene, I think mainly he was complaining about the prevalence of the open work aesthetic and how it made for too much sameness in what should make for pretty varied design. I think there is actually a lot of variability in these openwork concepts, but I can see why someone might feel that way and pondered upon it myself.

This isn't just about the open-worked Indies, but I think it comes down to the mindset of who can usually afford these types of watches. It's mainly people who can and maybe already own a handful of GC Pateks, APs, and Langes. When you've had access and experienced those watches, you either double down on it and buy the next new dial treatment QP or you've had your fun and you start looking for the strange. I don't think there are that many Indies who can survive unless they really go for it design-wise which naturally can result in polarizing watches. With a lot of these companies limited in yearly output anyway, they only need to find a small percentage of the deep-pocketed buyers out there to succeed (at least for now).
"When you've had access and experienced those watches, you either double down on it and buy the next new dial treatment QP or you've had your fun and you start looking for the strange."

Yeah, this makes sense. However, I'm struck by how having "experienced those watches..." isn't "enough". Why does there need to be the next thing (a different iteration, or something "strange")? It seems like what you are describing is actually a consumption hobby? Does it all end with dudes just wearing fitbits? I just find it a strange part of the market.
 
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Omega Male

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Never found this one particularly appealing from photos. Then saw one in person a few weeks ago and couldn't stop thinking about it, so here we are-
THIS IS THE WAY!
 

pmeis

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Yeah, this makes sense. However, I'm struck by how having "experienced those watches..." isn't "enough". Why does there need to be the next thing (a different iteration, or something "strange")? It seems like what you are describing is actually a consumption hobby? Does it all end with dudes just wearing fitbits? I just find it a strange part of the market.

Well, I mean that’s not unique to the high end or even this “hobby” either…the whole industry is completely different without people actively looking to consume new things.
 

am55

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Personally, I think the MB&F Perpetual or Sequential is the way to go. This is my choice:

20230328_MBandF_040_2200px.jpg


I'd love to own something from the mind of Stephen McDonnell.




Roger Smith at the prices he used to charge - alright, I get it. Roger Smith at the prices he is now charging? Come on! Absolutely ridiculous. Particularly given the role of CNC machines in the process.

This is probably a rude take: I think the entire premise of building a watch from soup-to-nuts is silly. Roger Smith is very capable of making a complete watch. But I do not understand the draw of one person making the entire watch. To borrow an example from my line of work: some lawyers are strong writers; others are technicians at breaking down an expert witness; others are strong oral advocates. Some work demands an experienced attorney; some work is busy work that an associate can make quick work of. Some experienced partners are unbelievable in court yet incapable of drafting a brief. Conversely, I know associates who can do quick research that I would not put in front of a client, let alone a jury. Personally, I want the best, most optimized person on each particular job.

I get the draw of original Philippe Dufour - but he was something close to a finishing artist. Roger Smith, from a number of watches that I have seen, is nothing close to Dufour. A lot of it, to me, is the novelty associated with the story. That novelty is lost on me when the starting price is nearly half a million.
Why do people visit the UK? It's a strange choice of tourist destination: poor public services (don't get sick on your holiday...), horizontal rain most of the year with a low cloud ceiling and wind, old broken buildings with guillotine windows and double taps, a bit of a public disorder and alcoholism problem once you get out of the few nice bits left, and a countryside made mostly of muddy fields and grey motorways. The beer is flat, warm and bitter. Whilst some Brits can be absolutely delightful and warm individuals, forming lifelong deep friendships unlike anything you'll meet elsewhere, on the whole the tourist will face a certain distance and moodiness, a look of permanent depression set on faces, coupled with increasing anger as you move more north, flourishing in war faces after Hadrian's wall. And let's face it, both architecturally, and size wise, the most famous old stone buildings are a fraction of what Europeans have achieved - when Ludwig of Bavaria built his fantasy up on the rock between two lakes, he did not take inspiration from Windsor or Balmoral.

Yet, it is a major destination, arguably "the" major destination for most of the world going towards the European Continent (it was easier, way back when, to say Europe, but here, again, British peculiarity strikes).

I think the British have substantially influenced global culture, even outside their empire (cf Parisian anglophilia). And so, we subconsciously recognise that longing for Home (or the impossible fantasy of Home, really, if you read Orwell between the lines) of those Away, even if we are in our own home, and the British fantasy resonates. I have very fond memories of my many years on the isles, and I get the same feeling when I hear about RS, the Isle of Man (TT included), hell, RS even looks like my old supervisor back in the days, dresses the same too. I revel in the British silliness, such as their strange obsession with Mark 2 jags that blow up every 100km, famous Bordeaux that is now Chinese-owned and run, peculiar obsession with Italy and Greece (or Spain for the public drinkers), and wearing suit jackets in tropical climates. To analyse these things for their intrinsic qualities is missing the point. You must love RS qua RS. Rule Britannia...
 

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