The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[9thsymph]

I see AP image kinda going downhill and Patek going up. If you look at both brands they are going opposite directions when it comes to marketing and branding. In 5 years I foresee AP doing a 180. Maybe the new CEO will turn this around once current marketing projects have finished. I just don't feel AP is a luxury brand when I look at what they are doing currently. Their big releases look like Swatch collaborations.

Honestly they both seem on a downward path

 

[JamesInLondon]

AP have done well under F-H B, much of their success has come from the demand for the RO; but their biggest profit earner haas been closing 75% of their retail outlets and establishing a chain of A-P “Houses”.

They now extract every last possible penny from each watch they produce, not just the boutique editions, but pretty much all their watches.

However F-H left at the end of the year and the new CEO, who has zero watch business experience, is unlikely to make even minor changes this year.

Even if their business does drop a little, the company will still do very well, as they own a nice chunk of Richard Miller, who seem to be impervious to market fluctuations.

 

[Omega Male]

AP have done well under F-H B, much of their success has come from the demand for the RO; but their biggest profit earner haas been closing 75% of their retail outlets and establishing a chain of A-P “Houses”.

They now extract every last possible penny from each watch they produce, not just the boutique editions, but pretty much all their watches.

However F-H left at the end of the year and the new CEO, who has zero watch business experience, is unlikely to make even minor changes this year.

Even if their business does drop a little, the company will still do very well, as they own a nice chunk of Richard Miller, who seem to be impervious to market fluctuations.

Think the RM balloon is ripe for deflation with that market overserved, but guess we'll see.

 

[Newcomer]

Was listening to the new Davide Cerrato podcast on Hodinkee Radio - was really surprised to hear that Bremont is moving downmarket, into the $2,600 or so price range (ie, Tudor). What an interesting move. I always thought that $5,000 - $7,000 was an odd price range for Bremont to be in.

 

[Scuppers]

Was listening to the new Davide Cerrato podcast on Hodinkee Radio - was really surprised to hear that Bremont is moving downmarket, into the $2,600 or so price range (ie, Tudor). What an interesting move. I always thought that $5,000 - $7,000 was an odd price range for Bremont to be in.

I was in the Bremont boutique in Melbourne sometime before Christmas, certainly not worthy of the price bracket they are currently playing in.

 

[9thsymph]

Anyone here posted a Bremont?

Is it more popular in the UK/Europe?

I’ve actually never seen one out in the wild (or even in the case, now that I think of it…).

 

[am55]

I see AP image kinda going downhill and Patek going up. If you look at both brands they are going opposite directions when it comes to marketing and branding. In 5 years I foresee AP doing a 180. Maybe the new CEO will turn this around once current marketing projects have finished. I just don't feel AP is a luxury brand when I look at what they are doing currently. Their big releases look like Swatch collaborations.

I wish you were right. Then I can pick up a recent ultrathin perpetual calendar in steel (obviously, a practical choice for every day wear) for a Breguet like 2nd hand discount. Unfortunately, this is not the case yet.

 

[Dino944]

I’ve always thought of the Rolex GMT as the sophisticated tool watch in the line up (the cosmopolitan pilot’s/traveler’s watch), so I think it looks great on a jubilee. But the oyster - with pcls - is a close second. ;-)

It's probably a just what I was used to seeing when I was growing up. My dad had a 1675 on an Oyster, the first Rolex catalog I got in the early 1980s showed a Pepsi on an Oyster, and my first Rolex was a 16750 GMT on an Oyster. It wasn't until sometime in the 1990s that I saw a few vintage GMTs (both all steel and tutone) on Jubilee bracelets (and a few 16700s on Jubilees too). So originally, to me that was always the bracelet for a DJ, even though I've also seen a few vintage Subs, Daytonas and Explorers on jubilee bracelets. While, I wish Rolex would go back to all brushed bracelets, I'm still an Oyster rather than Jubilee guy. When I was getting my Destro GMT (they had one on a Jubilee and one on an Oyster and I chose the Oyster. Anyway, cheers to my fellow Batman pal

 

[Dino944]

I am really wondering what will happen to AP image over the next couple of years but I am almost certain that their position will be different that it is still considered today and to what it was over the last 10-20 years for example. I can not see anything really good coming out based on the recent collaborations. I am writing that because my girlfriend just showed me a few influencers were part of some advertising campaign around their recent collaboration with a women's fashion brand I never heard about before. And the way these people use and display these watches for promo purposes is just something different - not in a good way.

I also must say that I don't really care about the brand as their current aesthetics really don't speak to me, but I do like some of their vintage pieces. But as I person that works in branding and also marketing I am struggling to understand why they are doing this. Other than just trying to include influencers with a lot of followers, but who they want to target with that I do not understand.

Here is the link to the IG profile to that fashion brand. I am not sure if there are also stories available, but I saw some of the stories from that event and all the promo content that came with and it is really cringe.

A lot of it is still possible to see on the AP official IG profile and their recent stories.

While many of their collaborations are not my taste, they have to do things to broaden their appeal and remain fresh and relevant. We might love they were doing 20-40+ years ago, but they weren't doing anywhere nearly as well as they do today (and that is also true of PP, VC, Lange, and most brands maybe with the exception of Rolex). Most of the high and brands were relatively unknown and sat in AD's showcases for months if not years. It took huge discounts to sell most of their watches. Now, their are waiting lists and you aren't getting discounts on AP or PP.

I recently heard that one year in the 1980s AP had annual revenues of $6 Million world wide. Now its a multiple of that figure.

I was at Bucherer in Vegas and the pre-owned section was AP galore...

That doesn't mean much. EWC has 74 Pateks, and only 37 APs and only 19 VCs.

I had a whole speech on my soapbox written out and the mobile version of this site kicked me out

Anyway, the shorter but more discombobulated version.

Enthusiasts care about things that many times these brands don’t really care about. They want to make money. Porsche enthusiasts had a stroke when the SUV was announced. Porsches now sells more SUV’s then cars and makes a lot of money. Watches are jewelry, nothing else. We care about who does the best movement finishing, the rest of the world does not care. The rest of the world are a lot of people and a lot of money. Brands want that money. It was not a coincidence that you saw Hollywood celebs with the Tiffany Nautilus almost as soon as it was announced. The VC 222 also miraculously made its way onto the wrists of a lot of celebrities as soon as it came out. Well known fashion designers/celebs/brands will move more (high end) watches then Hodinkee/Fratello etc. The brands are going for the Halo effect. if you like a particular watch/brand, buy it regardless of what the brand is doing. Patek sells more women’s quartz watches then anything else, I’m not going to turn down an Aquanaut because of it.

I agree completely. There is often a huge difference between what makes money for a company, and what enthusiasts want. I love Porsches, but I have no interest in 4 door Porsches. I've driven them and they are great cars, but I want a true sports car for that kind of money.

 

[Texasmade]

I recently heard that one year in the 1980s AP had annual revenues of $6 Million world wide. Now its a multiple of that figure.

Widely reported that AP is doing over 1B CHF a year now for the past several years. The original AP families are doing very well now.

 

[sussi]

I may be on an island here but the PCLs are atrocious. The smartest thing @TheFoo ever did was get the PCLs on his Daytona brushed.

Haha…I actually really like the pcls (makes the watch more interesting in the way it plays with light and color…). To each their own…

Oyster should never exist with PCL!

 

[Clouseau]

Only had one Rolex and it had an Oyster so I am biased…
Much prefer it.
Now if I had an Omega I would have their Jubilée, that is so comfy and good looking on the Speedy.
PCLs are not my thing. It is the case on my Son’s Rolex though (that he will have after graduation). Good news it can be brushed.

 

[patrick_b]

GMT DIY BCL's FTW.

 

[Clouseau]

GMT DIY BCL's FTW.

View attachment 2118257

WTF, FFS ?
DIY brush ?

 

[sussi]

I had a whole speech on my soapbox written out and the mobile version of this site kicked me out

Anyway, the shorter but more discombobulated version.

Enthusiasts care about things that many times these brands don’t really care about. They want to make money. Porsche enthusiasts had a stroke when the SUV was announced. Porsches now sells more SUV’s then cars and makes a lot of money. Watches are jewelry, nothing else. We care about who does the best movement finishing, the rest of the world does not care. The rest of the world are a lot of people and a lot of money. Brands want that money. It was not a coincidence that you saw Hollywood celebs with the Tiffany Nautilus almost as soon as it was announced. The VC 222 also miraculously made its way onto the wrists of a lot of celebrities as soon as it came out. Well known fashion designers/celebs/brands will move more (high end) watches then Hodinkee/Fratello etc. The brands are going for the Halo effect. if you like a particular watch/brand, buy it regardless of what the brand is doing. Patek sells more women’s quartz watches then anything else, I’m not going to turn down an Aquanaut because of it.

sure I understand that. Most brands are trying to sell more every year. But why I addressed this AP situation is because they have so many options who they want to engage with and which influencers to use and do marketing with them. But still for that specific event, they appointed almost random fashion influencer with 1.6m followers from whom probably over half are fake, her engagement is very low and she can not form a normal sentence in english, to take over their IG account for a day. And what she was able to tell about the watch was: "It's sooo nice". And they pay for that ****. Where you have a lot better options - women that are better positioned in the fashion and luxury lifestyle industry that could actually be a solid fit for the brand. At least if we look from values perspective etc. At least some things would be aligned to justify the pick. But still they went with a fake influencer from Serbia. And there is no ******* way they have any normal reason why they go with these people and I would still really want to hear their explanation.