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TheFoo

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I mean...you can, ostensibly. You said that you think most of those independents will be largely forgotten and noted what you consider obnoxious design elements. I'm just curious what you personally had in mind when you made that comment.
I’m not sure how I can be more clear. In general, independents have not had a great track record of survival. The biggest names from the 90’s and 00’s (Franck Muller, Roger Dubuis, Daniel Roth, etc.) are but shadows of their former selves, in many cases having been radically transformed after acquisition by a larger company.

Today’s independents are prone to the same risk. A key advantage of older, established makers is precisely that they are older and established.
 

NakedYoga

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I’m not sure how I can be more clear. In general, independents have not had a great track record of survival. The biggest names from the 90’s and 00’s (Franck Muller, Roger Dubuis, Daniel Roth, etc.) are but shadows of their former selves, in many cases having been radically transformed after acquisition by a larger company.
I'm not sure how I can be more clear either. I'm asking for current examples of those independents that you think are going to be relegated to the dustbin of irrelevance or that you find to be obnoxious or whatever. If you're just talking in generalities rather than having any specific examples in mind, I suppose I misunderstood you.

Today’s independents are prone to the same risk. A key advantage of older, established makers is precisely that they are older and established.
While true, that's a bit tautological, no?
 

Ebitdaddy

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Romain Gauthier using things like proprietary screws is pretty scary for serviceability down the road but Chanel does own a piece of them.
 

RobinMA

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I think the original Daniel Roth pieces were unique and beautiful, but are a rarity among independents. I think some independent's go so far to be different, that they end up making something unique, but awkward and appealing only to a small audience (perhaps people with a preference for independent's as they like the idea of small niche brands, where they may even have a little input). I've mentioned it before, but a friend had a collection of 40 watches, mostly VC (some vintage some current, and few from other brands), and he liquidated most to buy a JDN tourbillon. The finish is beautiful, he had a little input and got to communicate with Daniel Roth and his son. Still, at about $130,000 I don't think it's more beautiful or special than DR's original creations, or anything from PP, AP, VC, or Lange.

Gerald Genta is a designer who produced some impressive and iconic designs for AP, Patek, Omega, Bvlgari, Cartier etc....but on his own as an independent...be it the brand Gerald Genta or Gerald Charles... several of his pieces just fall flat or weren't that attractive. Who here even knows what a current Gerald Charles looks like without looking up their current collection? I certainly didn't.

View attachment 1738370

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Amusing but I don't want a Disney character watch. This appealed to a friend who collected jump hour pieces.

Sure designs like this last one were absorbed and used by Bvlgari, and in some ways they made it more wearable. But some of his designs are just tough to love.
The Disney watch should be seen in its sociologicalistorcal context - at that time, ballers in IB/PE also wore Iceberg sweaters, prime Iceberg.
 

dauster

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Wow THAT is a big$$$$ baller watch for PE overlords
funnily Roni M said in a podcast that the watch was above his budget and he took out a mortgage on his house - that's the reason he no longer actively collects PP since it's gotten so expensive. that's why he focusses on cartier. good podcast on collectability with john reardon
 

RobinMA

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My wife called every single Patek AD across the US and Europe earlier this year looking for this watch (which was discontinued in 2017). Weir & Sons in Dublin was the only dealer that still had one. However, it had shop wear and needed to be sent back to Patek for “return to stock” service.

Normally when an individual consumer sends a watch back to Patek, they offer only a service polish. While very expert, this necessarily changes the case profile. On the other hand, a dealer can opt for Patek to do whatever is necessary to bring the watch back to factory new condition. This could mean anything from a targeted hand polish to laser welding and re-cutting to a full case replacement. They’ll never tell you what they had to do—but theoretically not even Patek itself should be able to tell that any work was done. Any new Patek at an AD may or may not have undergone this process.

Anyway, it took months to complete the return to stock work. Then there was an issue wiring our payment and we didn’t want to risk trying again. Since Weir doesn’t take credit card payments over the phone, my wife flew to Dublin last week just to pick-up the watch! She flew in on a red eye, went into the city for four hours, then went back to the airport. True love :)

And here we are.
So this is what you posted some time ago. The 5170 that you are talking about in yesterday's post, with "distortions" that only an experienced watchmaker could see (not you) it that the watch which you wife bought in Dublin after it had been re-cased in some sort or other?

Another thought - why are you so inclined to believe that one - anonymous - watchmaker has told you? Why don't you take a good sample size of opinions of experts, maybe he was wrong?
 

am55

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Today’s independents are prone to the same risk. A key advantage of older, established makers is precisely that they are older and established.
But then you are going through third parties to fix your Patek's cases, instead of going through Patek. So clearly you don't mind the third party supply chain. Does it really make much difference if Patek is still around or not? There will always be watchmakers and they can make custom parts if needed, a la Smith.
 

Newcomer

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New pickup today, IWC Big Pilot 43. Despite Richemont being so pedestrian, this thing checks a number of boxes in my collection and I love it

View attachment 1738561 View attachment 1738562
I love that watch. It is so big that I can easily tell from a distance that the wearer is poor, and avoid him/her.

But really, it’s one of my favorite IWCs in a while and I think it’s a great addition. I tried it on and liked it a lot.

1642459370480.jpeg
 

smittycl

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I love that watch. It is so big that I can easily tell from a distance that the wearer is poor, and avoid him/her.

But really, it’s one of my favorite IWCs in a while and I think it’s a great addition. I tried it on and liked it a lot.

View attachment 1738657
Pretty bold timepiece. I really like almost all versions of the B-Uhren pilot’s watch.
 

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