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Stylish Dinosaur
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I feel like I repeatedly hear, on other fora, people bemoaning the lack of conservative, well proportioned, reasonably sized watches on the market. Yet, the JLC master series has been doing this for eons. The Master Geo, Master Calendar, Master Chrono, MUT Moon, etc., often range from 36mm to 40mm, are not too thick, and have very traditional design. I cannot help but feel like most people are not, in fact, interested in conservative and well proportioned watches when it comes time to swiping the credit card.
I agree about JLC and this explains why I own more than a few (bought my first back in 92). My wrist is 7 1/4" and the smaller understated size is what gets me to swipe the card. I'm thinking my Ultra Thin is only 32mm. My Geographique is about 36mm. BUT, I was in a store this weekend and was only seeing 39mm -- mostly 40mm -- and above in the JLC Master lineup. Right now I'm wearing the store owner's personal Master Grand Ultra Thin (39 to 40mm). He thought it would grow on me. It has, a bit, but not enough to buy. Without complications the dial feels oversized and empty. Tonight he's coming to dinner and I'll hand it back ... without a credit card to get my own.

Hopefully the old models are still available -- I saw none Saturday -- but it appears many models have been "supersized". Oh well, there is always the secondary market.
 
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How big is your wrist? You can get an older model Panerai Sub for under $5k
I have thought about Panerai recently. My wrist is pretty much exactly 7”.
 

NakedYoga

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A tangent: I feel like I repeatedly hear, on other fora, people bemoaning the lack of conservative, well proportioned, reasonably sized watches on the market. Yet, the JLC master series has been doing this for eons. The Master Geo, Master Calendar, Master Chrono, MUT Moon, etc., often range from 36mm to 40mm, are not too thick, and have very traditional design. I cannot help but feel like most people are not, in fact, interested in conservative and well proportioned watches when it comes time to swiping the credit card.
I think that's part of it. They forget to say they want an inexpensive conservative, well-proportioned dress watch. I think the MUT Moon is one of the most beautiful dress watches out there, if not the most beautiful to my eyes....I just went to their website to look at them again, and did they recently change the case size? I swear I thought they were all 40mm. Now the website shows 36mm and 39mm versions.

Looking for a dive watch, or a "sporty" watch with decent WR (100m), at or under $5,000 (that is not a hard cap, but I don't want to get into Rolex Sub money). Was considering a no date Sub for a while, but I think I want to fly more under the radar.
Vintage Panerai at auction or Oris anywhere
+1 to Oris. Are you looking at more "luxury" style divers or more chunky/"toolish" style? Vintage inspired?
 

Ambulance Chaser

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Also, on the subject of dive watches, sending this one to the group (although I kind of have some ideas already).

Looking for a dive watch, or a "sporty" watch with decent WR (100m), at or under $5,000 (that is not a hard cap, but I don't want to get into Rolex Sub money). Was considering a no date Sub for a while, but I think I want to fly more under the radar.
Black Bay or BB58?
I agree that the BB58 is the clear choice here. A quick check of Chrono24 indicates that it sells for well below $5K.
 

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I think that's part of it. They forget to say they want an inexpensive conservative, well-proportioned dress watch. I think the MUT Moon is one of the most beautiful dress watches out there, if not the most beautiful to my eyes....I just went to their website to look at them again, and did they recently change the case size? I swear I thought they were all 40mm. Now the website shows 36mm and 39mm versions.
Please post a link as all I see on JLC's page is 40mm (a 39 here and there) or larger in the Master lineup. I am a fan of 36mm. I've been assuming I'd have to look in the secondary market. Back when I was buying -- mostly in the 00's and earlier -- they were all 36mm and smaller.
 

NakedYoga

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Please post a link as all I see on JLC's page is 40mm (a 39 here and there) or larger in the Master lineup. I am a fan of 36mm. I've been assuming I'd have to look in the secondary market. Back when I was buying -- mostly in the 00's and earlier -- they were all 36mm and smaller.
Here you go: 36mm MUT Moon on blue alligator strap. $10,100 MSRP
 
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Dino944

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I think this is a great choice. Nicely straddles dress and casual. And with the complications, I feel this is a great value. Perhaps I am somewhat biased, but the JLC master series provides a great amount of value, and I believe it is criminally underrated.

A tangent: I feel like I repeatedly hear, on other fora, people bemoaning the lack of conservative, well proportioned, reasonably sized watches on the market. Yet, the JLC master series has been doing this for eons. The Master Geo, Master Calendar, Master Chrono, MUT Moon, etc., often range from 36mm to 40mm, are not too thick, and have very traditional design. I cannot help but feel like most people are not, in fact, interested in conservative and well proportioned watches when it comes time to swiping the credit card.
I like and respect JLC, and my dad has a nice Master Antoine limited edition. But I find some of their designs are so sterile looking, than they don't make a strong enough impression to get people past the trying on stage. I know the MUT is well liked here, and not to annoy owners...but it just doesn't do anything for me. Until one gets to some of the pieces with more substantial looking cases they just don't excite me, and I do wish they would change the font for their Arabic numerals. The Geographic and the old Master Hometime were a few exceptions that I really liked. However, I'm still more in love with their Reverso's than their offerings from the Master series.

I did at least stop buying more expensive dive watches, the last few have been $1200 or under and either preowned or ones not at risk of losing much in resale, like the Unimatic.

My mother-in-law basically made the same comment to me in less technical terms based on posting the photo on my IG feed. The Unimatic definitely loses utility for the benefit of style a bit.
Over the years I've owned 4 dive watches. 1 Omega Seamaster, and 3 Subs. 3 of the 4 watches I traded for a Rolex (or another Rolex) in 2 years or less. The only one I've kept is my 2005 Kermit Submariner. I like how it looks and wears. However, I generally find a GMT function more useful than additional water resistance. So at this point I still have my '05 Sub and 3 GMT function watches, and I'm on a waiting list for a Pepsi GMT if that order ever gets filled ;):rotflmao:
 

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NakedYoga

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Thank you. For some reason I could NOT find that watch on their website.
No problem. Glad I could help.

I like and respect JLC, and my dad has a nice Master Antoine limited edition. But I find some of their designs are so sterile looking, than they don't make a strong enough impression to get people past the trying on stage.
That's fair. The sterility is one of the reasons I like the MUT series so much, as a potential dress watch. I will say, however, that the gold cases on most, if not all, of the MUTs look much better than the stainless ones--although I still think the stainless ones look very nice.
 

Dino944

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Well, funny enough, two mentioned are the primary contenders:

View attachment 1648727
View attachment 1648728

I love the no date sub but man, am I getting burned out on that watch. Most of my friends / acquaintances have one, want one, or know that it is $10k on the wrist, and that has soured me.
Both are nice, but I'm not a fan of the white dial on the Seamaster. I like it a far more with a dark dial. The BB is a nice watch too, and that would be my choice over the white Seamaster, partially because of the dial.

As for the no-date Sub, I get that you aren't thrilled with the price...I can see that being a sticking point for many people (I wish they were less expensive there days). As for the lots of friends wanting or having them, personally I never have an issue with that. I've joked and said many times, if I walk into a room and I'm wearing mine, and someone else is wearing his Sub...I think to myself..."Damn, that guy has good taste!" ;) :rotflmao: In terms of design, its largely the basis for design derivatives from a variety of other brands. The design has evolved, but I still feel its the original and the piece that most other dive watches are measured by, and a watch that looks great regardless of which generation one chooses (something that can't always be said about past offerings from competitors).
 

pmeis

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I simply dont understand the appeal of these watches. maybe that's why they dont stay in your collection very long. how about the james cameron deep sea ?
I've had Subs, I think they're great, just would rather have something different in that price category (like my Santos for instance). So dive watches have been cordoned off to more value oriented, occasional wear for me. Neither of the two watches pictured are going to get much wear vs my Santos or El Primero. There more just fun to have around if I'm going to go bang around outside in the heat.

I don't like any of the outsized Rolex divers, for one, my wrist definitely couldn't support it, but I think proportions and design elements are too strange. The dial on the Cameron one is neat though.
 

Dino944

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I will say, however, that the gold cases on most, if not all, of the MUTs look much better than the stainless ones--although I still think the stainless ones look very nice.
I agree I do think several of them look much better in gold than steel. I was about to tell @RSS that I like the gold one he has, and he should hang onto it rather than getting a steel one. I think there is something about that watch that just looks perfect in gold, more so than the white metals (I tried the older model in WG many years ago).
 

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I agree I do think several of them look much better in gold than steel. I was about to tell @RSS that I like the gold one he has, and he should hang onto it rather than getting a steel one. I think there is something about that watch that just looks perfect in gold, more so than the white metals (I tried the older model in WG many years ago).
I'm holding.
 

New Shoes1

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Well, funny enough, two mentioned are the primary contenders:

View attachment 1648727
View attachment 1648728

I love the no date sub but man, am I getting burned out on that watch. Most of my friends / acquaintances have one, want one, or know that it is $10k on the wrist, and that has soured me.
Both are great watches, but also pretty different (within the dive watch genre). The new Omega's look great, but they are 42mm and thick and have gone for much more of a tool watch vibe. The BB58 is 40 mm, thinner and relatively dressier (for a dive watch). I'll also add that, as much as I like that white dial SMP on a strap, it's just okay on the bracelet. The black dial version is pretty sharp, though, on both bracelet and rubber strap.
 

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