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Loathing

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This is the current Patek landing page for their website. Do you see an aesthetic which is quietly aristocratic and stylishly dégagé, or do you see a storied brand that has totally lost its sense of good design?
 

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TheFoo

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This seems to be an amazing rationalization. Personally I think most Pateks look pretty good. Some are great. But I’m not sure how their relatively lazy font choices are much of a positive versus their more thoughtful competitors. At least they didn’t choose to use Impact as a font, although you probably would have rationalized that as a superior choice in much the same way.
Their font choices have always been lazy. Focus on customized typography is a contemporary phenomenon in watches.
 

TheFoo

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This is the current Patek landing page for their website. Do you see an aesthetic which is quietly aristocratic and stylishly dégagé, or do you see a storied brand that has totally lost its sense of good design?
One would need familiarity with Patek history to have a worthwhile opinion on the matter.
 

TheFoo

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If you can see the overlap on the Lange 1 as a possible flaw, but you can't see the obvious blunder in them cutting a date window into the band of the 24 hour counter, then you have an extremely serious case of selective blindness. Ooooh it's a Patek...I own some, so they can do no wrong!

Yes I've criticized Pateks in the past and recently, as I don't love much of what they are producing these days. My favorite recent watch from them is the 5712/A1. I've also liked some Calatravas and complicated pieces of the past. I just like some of their older pieces far more than their current ones. I've criticized AP for making far too many insignificant limited edition Offshores that all look the same except for the color stitching on the straps. I've criticized older RO Jumbos which had unattractive shortened stick markers so that a needless 1/10/15/20 could be put around the dial, or the fit/comfort of some of their older older clasps. I've criticized IWC and VC for the direction in which most of their collections have gone (there's basically nothing I want from IWC these days, and VC - the only one I really like these days in the 1921 American). Cartier, there are some models that do little for me, but they are often pieces that are far less expensive than what it costs to purchase a Patek, AP, VC etc. If looking at higher end mechanical watches from them, my favorites are the CPCP watches. Not to mention, if one really doesn't like the details of their dials, hands, crowns etc. on one of their precious metal watches, one can always commission a watch...AFAIK, you can't do that with 5396.

"I think when people are attacking it for being a critical failure of design, something else is going on." Might be the funniest thing you've said in a while. Something else is going on, like what? A Foo watch thread conspiracy? You posted pix of the 3448 and 5396 as a comparison in design. I'm not sure why you can't accept that more people preferred the design of the 3448. Yes you have now provided an analysis about harmonizing a full date, and being easier to read, etc ...but at the end of the day, it's still to many a less attractive design.
Lol

Dude, you praise every single mediocre Cartier anyone posts (amidst the conspicuously sudden fashionability of Cartier watches over the past couple of years). How come Cartier gets a free pass from you for re-issuing watered down, compromised versions of its historical designs? Could it be that you are rationalizing Cartier’s merits because you own Cartier watches?

Come off it. Nobody forced me to buy a 5396. Why the fuck would I spend $50K+ on a watch I don’t actually think is a great watch just to come into a watch thread in a men’s fashion forum largely populated by people with a less-than-average hobbyist knowledge of watches to retroactively justify my purchase to them? How can you simultaneously insist that I crave approval and criticize me for being immovable in my opinions? Some bizarre shit going on here.

And don’t play dumb. As within most arenas, people love to attempt take-downs of whatever holds preeminent status, whether that be the NY Yankees, powerful white men, the United States, or Patek Philippe. It’s not a conspiracy theory, but a common social phenomenon. To what extent it is at play here is up for debate, but it belies credulity for you to feign no awareness of such dynamic.
 
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Phileas Fogg

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This is the current Patek landing page for their website. Do you see an aesthetic which is quietly aristocratic and stylishly dégagé, or do you see a storied brand that has totally lost its sense of good design?
perhaps both? I’ve always felt odd rendering opinions on matters with which I don’t have personal experience with, but speaking from a purely aesthetic viewpoint, I think both.

the same design house that gives us this:

1627427296720.jpeg

Also gives us this:

 

Dino944

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Lol

Dude, you praise every single mediocre Cartier anyone posts (amidst the conspicuously sudden fashionability of Cartier watches over the past couple of years). How come Cartier gets a free pass from you for re-issuing watered down, compromised versions of its historical designs? Could it be that you are rationalizing Cartier’s merits because you own Cartier watches?

Come off it. Nobody forced me to buy a 5396. Why the fuck would I spend $50K+ on a watch I don’t actually think is a great watch just to come into a watch thread in a men’s fashion forum largely populated by people with a less-than-average hobbyist knowledge of watches to retroactively justify my purchase to them? How can you simultaneously insist that I crave approval and criticize me for being immovable in my opinions? Some bizarre shit going on here.

And don’t play dumb. As within most arenas, people love to attempt take-downs of whatever holds preeminent status, whether that be the NY Yankees, powerful white men, the United States, or Patek Philippe. It’s not a conspiracy theory, but a common social phenomenon. To what extent it is at play here is up for debate, but it belies credulity for you to feign no awareness of such dynamic.
:rotflmao:

I never give Cartier or any other brand a free pass, whether I own one or not. I'm not a fan of the Ballon Bleu, which has been a very successful model for Cartier (but I don't recall anyone posting one here). My wife wanted an owns an automatic Tank Francaise. Nothing fancy or special about it, and it uses an ETA base movement. But its the watch she wanted, so I bought it for her (happy wife happy life), she's had it about 18 years, beats the hell out of it and it just keeps going.

Cartier in my opinion, does offer great value for several watches that are part of their collections. I think the current Santos de Cartier is far better than the vintage ones, so I don't see that as a watered down re-issue. The Santos de Cartier and Pasha de Cartier may not be everyone's choice of watch, but they offer a good value for an iconic design, well made watch with an 8 year warranty, water resistance to 100m, anti magnetic (Santos), an inhouse movement, tremendous versatility with easy to switch between a bracelet and strap system...and unlike most steel Rolex watches, they can actually be seen and purchased at ADs or boutiques without having to name your first born after the shop's manager, or purchase items you didn't really want to get the item you did want.

As for their current reissues, I wish the dials on the Tank Cintrees were different, but as mentioned, if one has the funds one can get a bespoke version that is more interesting than most Calatravas. I like the solid dial Tank Aymetrique, the skeleton isn't my taste.

Regarding what you deemed praising every mediocre Cartier people post here, you may not have noticed, but I compliment or press like for almost every new watch purchase shared here, whether they are ones I want to own, or ones I have no desire to own. If someone purchased something they really liked, then I'm genuinely happy for them and I'm glad to share in their enjoyment.

In terms of "Take downs" you brought up a comparison of dials on 2 Pateks. I'm not out to take down any brand. If a brand offers something that's off, I hope maybe they will do it better next time.

One can clearly see where the idea came from for the 5396. I never criticized the quality or finish of the 5396. I stated why I like the dial more on the vintage model far more. You brought some various points about practicality/full date and legibility...but at the end of the day practicality doesn't make one a beauty contest winner. Miss Universe rarely wins the title because she has a sturdier build that allows her to use a jack hammer for road work, and because she has a plain face that doesn't distract her co-workers.

You and I sometimes agree when it comes to cars or watches. You are good at writing, but I'll never understand why in your discussions you resort to insulting people in the thread..."just to come into a watch thread in a men’s fashion forum largely populated by people with a less-than-average hobbyist knowledge of watches..."
 
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TheFoo

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perhaps both? I’ve always felt odd rendering opinions on matters with which I don’t have personal experience with, but speaking from a purely aesthetic viewpoint, I think both.

the same design house that gives us this:

View attachment 1645116
Also gives us this:

Patek has a history making both highly ornate / baroque designs and very simple, Bauhaus-inspired designs. The latter have tended to most strongly characterize the company to most people, but intricately decorated, bejeweled timepieces are just as much part of Patek DNA. In fact, they make a big point of preserving and showing off traditional handicrafts (marquetry, enameling, guilloche, engraving, jewel setting, etc.).
 

DapperPhilly

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I used to own a few Rolex watches. 2 tone submariner, Daytona and a no date stainless submariner purchased in Geneva in 1984.
I sold them all years ago because I stopped wearing watches.
I just ordered this because it's my style and the price is right.

 

RJman

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RJman

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“Gentile” is not the right word.
unless he had grown a thick foreskin

also, Poundbury should be called Poundtown
 

Newcomer

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I do not want to wade into the 3448 / 5396 debacle of the last few pages (although suffice to say the 3448 is objectively better than the 5396, for reasons stated), but I wanted to make some observations on Patek (in no particular order):
  • The Patek of today is not the Patek of yesterday - I refrain from saying it is better or worse (a matter of opinion), just different.
  • Prior Patek designs appeal to me more than current Patek designs but, by and large, a lot of current Patek designs seemingly sacrifice design to cater to modern sensibilities (i.e., the insertion of date windows, random Breguet numerals, etc.).
  • Prior Patek designs were at times flawless but unquestionably conservative and a bit safe (the 3448, for example) - JLC makes safe designs (i.e., my MUT Moon, the calendar), and JLC watches are sitting on shelves and I am one of the only people I have ever met with a JLC watch. I wonder if current Patek would be successful if it stayed conservative and true to prior Patek. Or do people want something different.
  • The case and dial work of current Patek is very, very nice - in the metal, they really do gleam. I have tried a good number of watches, and Patek and Lange, at least to me, feel different.
  • Current Patek, while missing the mark sometimes, can be very charming. I appreciate that Patek takes risks (i.e., the 5212A). Stated otherwise, current Patek could be derivative of prior Patek, but it chooses not to - that is interesting to me.
  • We, as hobbyists, give Patek and Rolex a harder time (I know I do). My first thought when I see Patek and Rolex is "what is wrong / imperfect with this one." In my defense, there often is something objectionable, and Patek can be frustratingly lazy.
 
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