The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[TheFoo]

Guys, obviously value is subjective. We each have our own priorities and interests. Hence we each value things uniquely. No ****, Sherlock.

However, in order to have productive interpersonal discussions, one has to presume or identify a threshold commonality with respect to such priorities and interests. Otherwise, we might as well each be speaking a different language (or starting our own separate watch threads where we talk about how we don’t really like watches but maybe sometimes do). Nobody would learn anything or get anywhere.

My comparison of JLC versus other makers of dress watches was based on some basic assumptions about what matters to many enthusiasts. If you don’t personally have the same priorities, that’s fine. But that is not the same as nobody else sharing the same priorities or those priorities not being worth communicating.

 

[Drek Galloche]

What does subjective even mean? If value is equally 'subjective' to 1000 people is it still subjective? What about 1 million people who assign exactly the same value to a 'thing' is it less subjective or the same?
There is no such thing as subjective just like there is no esoteric, jizzosophical notion of value. This is just stupid gobbledygook spread on college campuses.

 

[9thsymph]

That's volume not value.

Possibly another abstract jizzosophical concept we can debate.

Right. It was a metaphor to illustrate a lack of capacity (volume) to understand common concepts. It wasn’t a metaphor re “value” itself, so...yeah, the image was using volume not value (as intended). That you would conflate my obvious intended object (the capacity to understand) with the concept to be understood (value), is an ongoing part of the problem, though.

Nothing remotely philosophical to any of this. Just simple words being misunderstood and/or conflated. Perhaps English isn’t your preferred language? Totally understand. I make simple mistakes when I try discuss topics in languages I struggle with...cheers!

 

[9thsymph]

Guys, obviously value is subjective. We each have our own priorities and interests. Hence we each value things uniquely. No ****, Sherlock.

However, in order to have productive interpersonal discussions, one has to presume or identify a threshold commonality with respect to such priorities and interests. Otherwise, we might as well each be speaking a different language (or starting our own separate watch threads where we talk about how we don’t really like watches but maybe sometimes do). Nobody would learn anything or get anywhere.

My comparison of JLC versus other makers of dress watches was based on some basic assumptions about what matters to many enthusiasts. If you don’t personally have the same priorities, that’s fine. But that is not the same as nobody else sharing the same priorities or those priorities not being worth communicating.

Right. I find it difficult sometimes, though, when certain premises are taken for granted - as obviously shared values - when they aren’t actually shared values. The next step then seems to try and regulate which features should be mutually agreed upon, and that kind of sucks, because then it really does feel super manipulative/pedantic.

Trying to express inter-subjective values in a productive way seems super easy, though: “Hey folks, as someone who deeply values movement finishing ahead of other design/construction features, I think...blah, blah, blah...”

I guess the issue then, is sort of who
gate-keeps a hierarchy of valued features, by talking as though “naturally we can all assume xyz...” which, again, feels like a manipulative tactic, even if unintended...

 

[TheFoo]

Right. I find it difficult sometimes, though, when certain premises are taken for granted - as obviously shared values - when they aren’t actually shared values. The next step then seems to try and regulate which features should be mutually agreed upon, and that kind of sucks, because then it really does feel super manipulative/pedantic.

Trying to express inter-subjective values in a productive way seems super easy, though: “Hey folks, as someone who deeply values movement finishing ahead of other design/construction features, I think...blah, blah, blah...”

I guess the issue then, is sort of who
gate-keeps a hierarchy of valued features, by talking as though “naturally we can all assume xyz...” which is a manipulative tactic, even if unintended...

There is no “gatekeeper”. People decide on their own whether they agree with certain starting principles. Ideas flow freely.

 

[9thsymph]

There is no “gatekeeper”. People decide on their own whether they agree with certain starting principles. Ideas flow freely.

I agree! But that’s not how many of these discussions unfold...

Whatever...

I actually agree with many of the details being discussed (re jlc etc...), but find the manner of “argument” kind of fucked up...

Anyway...

 

[TheFoo]

I was a huge fan of this watch. Then I noticed a serious problem. Now it is an unforgivable abortion.

 

[Texasmade]

Not a fan of the watch overall but the different sized subdials would really bother me.

I was a huge fan of this watch. Then I noticed a serious problem. Now it is an unforgivable abortion.

View attachment 1630314

 

[pmeis]

I was a huge fan of this watch. Then I noticed a serious problem. Now it is an unforgivable abortion.

View attachment 1630314

No minute track?

 

[9thsymph]

I was a huge fan of this watch. Then I noticed a serious problem. Now it is an unforgivable abortion.

View attachment 1630314

smaller subdial at 6?

 

[TheFoo]

No minute track?

Ding ding ding. You can’t count the elapsed seconds with the chronograph function over the first quarter of the dial!!!

One of the stupidest and most atrocious fails I’ve seen in a while.

 

[Deeky]

Back to watches - Has anyone ever heard of a gray dealer or AD who is willing to heavily discount an unpopular PM Panerai? Specifically, the 42mm Goldtech Panerai Due. I'm thinking of picking one up as well but I refuse to pay anything near retail.

Edit: By heavy I mean 40-50% off MSRP. If that's not possible then I'd probably get something else

 

[pmeis]

Ding ding ding. You can’t count the elapsed seconds with the chronograph function over the first quarter of the dial!!!

One of the stupidest and most atrocious fails I’ve seen in a while.

Eh, it's a watch designed to look cool and it succeeds. It looks less cluttered than the other A384 types, but then again its still easy enough to figure out the elapsed seconds. Still can can calculate speed with the tachymetre though, so maybe the user only wants to calculate speed I know in my 8 months of ownership I have attempted to do calculate speed or time something where I needed exact elapsed seconds precisely zero times.

 

[9thsymph]

Full bronze bb58...”ordered”...

 

[jischwar]

Full bronze bb58...”ordered”...

I quite liked that one too