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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mimo, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

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    Panerai and salad. A little bit of lettuce covered with bacon, bleu cheese, fried onions, hazelnuts and olives but it's a salad so it's healthy.
    [​IMG]
     


  2. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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  3. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Senior member

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    Great commentary. I would however rephrase my point about limited editions. Instead of "more limited editions" I should have said "limit more editions." I wouldn't apply that to all brands and certainly not all models, but I think from their end there is both opportunity and motive to do so and in doing it could keep them from having to lower prices as much as they may need to. At the end of the day my personal motivation though is to get a great deal on a watch I love.

    I haven't really lived the increases. I can obviously see them on paper, but having only really been into luxury watches the past year or two I simply don't have the experience of seeing what you're saying. Not that I don't believe you mind and I do appreciate such insight which is one of the many reasons I prefer discussing watches here and haven't actively posted on any watch specific forums.

    I would just add two things:

    1) If you can get over not having a date (and I generally HATE date windows), then the Geophysic 1958 is something to consider. Very tool watch in a way, but it can also easily be somewhat dressy. I absolutely love mine and it's really versatile.

    2) The True Second has been available from various grey dealers for a couple of months now. Prices range from $6500-$8000, but you can get one in new condition (sans warranty) for about $6500 and possibly less.
     


  4. IGotId

    IGotId Senior member

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    Quote:
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    Quote:Thanks everyone for the feedback. Belligero, for some reason I've never been a fan of the steel-bezeled Daytonas.
     


  5. Best4Best

    Best4Best Well-Known Member

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    I love my IWC Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     


  6. Best4Best

    Best4Best Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     


  7. concealed

    concealed Senior member

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    speedmaster is next on my list!
     


  8. tigerpac

    tigerpac Senior member

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    ^Speaking of speedmasters. Thoughts on the ck2998 reissue? Anybody see one in the metal? They're just starting to trickle out into the wild.
     


  9. Akeem

    Akeem Senior member

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    nice one zippy.

    luv the sub
     


  10. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    TBH, I'm not clear on what you mean by "Limit more editions"? Therefore, I'm not really sure how to respond.

    You said you don't mean more limited editions, ...but you are saying they should "Limit more editions." Does that mean doing fewer limited edition pieces to make those more exclusive? Or does your statement mean limiting production of some standard production pieces?

    I just do not see how companies limited edition pieces in smaller batches or limiting more standard production pieces will actually turn things around for high end Swiss manufacturers. I don't see the issue being exclusivity. Patek, AP, VC etc are already some of the most exclusive and expensive brands. They are in a price range that many collectors can't afford. Even larger volume brands like Rolex, JLC, Cartier etc have increased in price so fast that many collectors can't afford new ones. So making items more exclusive and/or expensive isn't going to give it broader appeal or increase sales.

    You talk about limiting more editions and how that could keep them from having to lower their prices, but if that means reducing overall production or production of many models..I don't see how that will work. Yes, maybe they could limit or stop producing some models until surpluses dry up, but until then the manufacturers have little or no product to sell to dealers or put in boutiques to sell. In addition, to make up for lost volume and economies of scale, they may even be forced to increase prices.

    My thoughts on the issue being consumer's perceived value rather than exclusivity, isn't just my view alone. Its also the view of some of my watch collecting friends who have been collecting for many years and have sizable collections. However, during the last few years they haven't seen any "Must have pieces" that they are willing to purchase new. As stated before, they have either held off from buying anything or have moved into purchasing vintage pieces. These friends surely would not buy more watches simply by learning brand is making their watches more exclusive by producing fewer watches (and or raising prices). Anyway, its clear we have different ideas as to how companies should deal with last year's decline and we will just have to see how they deal with it. Cheers!
     


  11. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not sure I understand the "more limited editions" versus "limit more editions" issue.

    However, I have thought for quite some time that the high-end watch market is becoming increasingly over-saturated with pretender brands. There are true blue chips (Patek and Rolex come to top of mind) that may sell fewer watches in the next year or two, but will not need to meaningfully restructure their pricing model or model line-ups. They will soldier on as they always have, finding safety in the long-term value proposition and prestige they offer consumers and collectors. It's the Hublots and Glashuette Originals of the world that are in real trouble--resuscitated, refashioned brands that have aggressively increased prices chasing over-exuberant luxury buyers who don't have enough knowledge to understand they are buying an illusion.

    I'm most interested to see what will happen to the companies in between--established, "real" firms that don't quite reach Patek-level prestige (Lange, JLC, IWC, Omega, etc.). These companies, I would wager, will recalibrate to focus on core offerings, eliminate slower selling model lines, introduce more entry-level models, and perhaps lower prices across the board.
     


  12. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Limited editions are bullshit.
     


  13. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    I also forgot to mention, but its related on some level to your thoughts on Hublot and GO, that we will see fewer resuscitated brand names and possibly some will be absorbed or disappear altogether depending on pricing and competition. I've never seen much need for or interest in brands like Perrelet or Arnold & Sons/British Masters.

    Rolex being as large as it is and having weathered many rough market changes etc, will be unaffected. Patek, at the high end is fine, and they have their supporters who will buy regardless, but I do question whether they can continue the way they have in the last 10+ years at least with regard to their lower end models. They make great watches, but their pricing is ridiculous with respect to Calatravas and "Lower end models."

    It will be interesting to see how the various brand will move forward in the next few years.
     


  14. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Senior member

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    It actually means both. I was referring to both limiting the production of limited editions as well as in some cases standard production pieces.

    I wasn't referring to specific brands, but I definitely wasn't referring to PP, AP or VC. That said I think other brands like JLC for instance would benefit from such a move. While I don't see the pieces being more exclusive as entirely a way to broaden appeal or increase sales, though I think that's a definite possibility from such a move, it would in many cases likely allow brands in some cases to be able to limit discounting and thus make more of a margin.

    That's actually not correct. I said that limiting more editions could keep them from having to lower prices "more than they need to." I didn't say that it could keep them from having to lower their prices at all. I stand by that statement too. What's more though, I never offered this as the only solution much less the main solution to their problem. I said "one thing that comes to mind" in reference to this point and I also mentioned being interested in seeing what some manufacturers can offer at the $3000 price point for example. I agree with you that they'd have to come up with solutions for lost volume and economies of scale. In fact that came to mind when I put forth the notion of limiting some production. I work for a company in a similar predicament, though not as a result of hiking up prices, and they're limiting production in addition to other moves. When discussing this with some of my peers in management I've commented on the economies of scale as there is already a built in amount of sales simply from volume even at a discount and that the company can't just limit production by a great degree overnight. Of course I don't work for a company that produces watches.

    I respect your view and that of your watch collecting friends and to an extent agree with it. In fact I'm certain it's a part of the problem as I'm sure there are multiple issue out there. However you're just a very small portion of the watch consuming public. There are still buyers out there who view pieces they love as "must have" and who very likely when faced with paying closer to full retail for such a piece as it's even more limited than even today's production numbers (which aren't always that "limited") will do so.

    At the end of the day we do have different ideas, but I think they both apply as part of the solution for the watchmakers.
     


  15. xMaximex

    xMaximex Well-Known Member

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