• Hi, I'm the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear and fashion.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Dino944

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Messages
6,086
Reaction score
5,031
Alright, calling on all sharp eyes. Below are photos of a Patek 5170 I’m looking at. It’s one of the last available new from an authorized dealer. It is overseas so I can’t inspect in person.

Is it just me or does it look like the case might have been polished/refinished? The edges of the lugs appear ever so slightly softened. Or it could just be the photo / lighting. Or my paranoia.

Also, looks like there might be some hairline scratches on the bezel.

It is 2015 production. Dealer has had it for five years, which makes me worry about handling and shop wear.

Thoughts?

View attachment 1540751
The watch definitely has hair line scratches on the bezel. Gold is relatively soft and scratches very easily. A watch that is unwrapped, and in and out of a showcase over the course of 5 years is going to get some shop wear. I once purchased a watch based on photos and it had been in the shop for about that long. I was rather disappointed with the condition, and it was far less expensive watch than a 5170G. The manufacturer agreed to polish it and did a very nice job, but I know better and don't get any of my watches polished during a service.

The lugs on these watches have a fair amount of curvature to start with, so I;m not sure that I can tell if it has or has not been polished unless it was next to other unpolished watch. Also, a watch made 5 years ago sitting in a showcase under hot lights, doing nothing, will still need a service. You might be able to go a bit longer before servicing it, but according to Patek's own website, their watches should be serviced every 5 years. https://www.patek.com/en/retail-service/services/importance-of-maintenance
 

Dino944

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Messages
6,086
Reaction score
5,031
That’s been a common observation. However, must keep in mind that Zenith/Heuer/Daytona chronographs all originate from the same era and all appeared very similar, with black bezels and high-contrast “panda” dials. It was just the fashion of the times. Rolex did not invent the look, though the Daytona has been the most consistent torchbearer. So these Zeniths are not necessarily copying the Daytona but just recalling their own heritage.
The dial is Zenith and is recalling it's own heritage, but it looks a bit too close to a Daytona. If I wanted a Zenith chrono, I'd buy one that looks like one of the classic Zenith El Primero chronographs and less like a Daytona.
 
Last edited:

Phileas Fogg

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
2,371
Reaction score
1,702
The watch definitely has hair line scratches on the bezel. Gold is relatively soft and scratches very easily. A watch that is unwrapped, and in and out of a showcase over the course of 5 years is going to get some shop wear. I once purchased a watch based on photos and it had been in the shop for about that long. I was rather disappointed with the condition, and it was far less expensive watch than a 5170G. The manufacturer agreed to polish it and did a very nice job, but I know better and don't get any of my watches polished during a service.

The lugs on these watches have a fair amount of curvature to start with, so I;m not sure that I can tell if it has or has not been polished unless it was next to other unpolished watch. Also, a watch made 5 years ago sitting in a showcase under hot lights, doing nothing, will still need a service. You might be able to go a bit longer before servicing it, but according to Patek's own website, their watches should be serviced every 5 years. https://www.patek.com/en/retail-service/services/importance-of-maintenance
I was struck by the 5 years service interval. Sounds a bit excessive.
 

Ambulance Chaser

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
12,118
Reaction score
5,180
I don't see the similarities between the Zenith chronograph and the Daytona that other people are seeing. Yes, they both have a black ceramic bezel and the same hands, but that's about it. The Zenith is a stand-in for the Daytona as much as the Omega Seamaster is a stand-in for the Submariner. Some people will buy it because they don't want to pay double retail or wait for a decade for a Daytona, but it's a fine watch in its own right.
 

Dino944

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Messages
6,086
Reaction score
5,031
I don't see the similarities between the Zenith chronograph and the Daytona that other people are seeing. Yes, they both have a black ceramic bezel and the same hands, but that's about it. The Zenith is a stand-in for the Daytona as much as the Omega Seamaster is a stand-in for the Submariner. Some people will buy it because they don't want to pay double retail or wait for a decade for a Daytona, but it's a fine watch in its own right.
Never said the Zenith isn't a great quality watch. I would just rather have one with more Zenith DNA, than one which looks like a Rolex homage. The classic has the tachymeter scale on the dial, not a metal or ceramic bezel, although their somewhat more generic /less attractive old Rainbow Chronographs had a bezel with the scale or diving markings. To me, this new one looks a bit too much like a Daytona, with the bezel, "Oyster style bracelet", and a case shape closer to that of a Daytona than any of the classic Zenith El Primero chronographs. But to each his own.

I was struck by the 5 years service interval. Sounds a bit excessive.
Patek, and other companies making "Dress watches" used to recommend a service roughly every 3 years back in the 1980s and 90s. These cases are not as robust, and not as good at protecting a watch from keeping moisture and dust out, and maybe keeping the oils from congealing (as say that of an Oyster case or Seamaster). Rolex was recommending every 5 years IIRC, but with advances in the lubricants, most companies have been able to extend the intervals between services. I went 13 years with an old 167570 Explorer II, and everything was fine. It only needed new gaskets (which any watch should get when it's getting overhauled). Rolex now suggests a service every 10 years. https://www.rolex.com/watch-care-and-service/faq.html#:~:text=To guarantee continued accuracy and,model and real-life usage.
 

Dino944

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Messages
6,086
Reaction score
5,031
I want to steer as far as possible away from politics as possible, please. For fuck sake, our daily lives (here in America, at least) are saturated with that shit.

However, a valid point somewhere there emerged: the OPTICS of wearing a watch, whatever it may be. The “baggage” of wearing a watch is such an interesting dynamic. I once owned a Rolex Day-Date 40 in solid gold and champagne dial - the Soprano watch, but updated. It was my grail watch. I loved it so much. One day, when I was a younger man, I flew to Michigan to meet with a client. I wore it to the meeting. He kept looking at it. At the end of the meeting, and after about an hour of post-meeting discussion, he said “if you think I’m going to pay you [my hourly rate] just so you can buy another fucking Gold Rolex, think again, pal.” I sold it two days afterward and it taught my young, senseless ass a valuable lesson: mind your wrist, for everyone else may.

Let’s stay amicable and centered, gentlemen. Thank you.

P.S.: I still love you, Annie (that was her name)
View attachment 1540535
Interesting story. Still, it reminds me of a situation a lawyer wrote about on one of the watch forums at least 20 years ago. He was wearing an IWC pilot chronograph, either a 3706 or 3713, I forget which. A client noticed the watch and said something to the effect of, "I get nervous about my bill when I see a lawyer wearing a chronograph like that." He replied, "You should be more nervous of the bills you will get from one who doesn't."

Any gold watch on a gold bracelet is going to attract some attention. The color alone makes it stand out regardless of brand. I think the Day-Date/President is among the most recognize based on TV/movies, and actual President's like LBJ wearing them, or President Eisenhower wearing a gold Datejust on gold bracelet (but that looks close enough to most people).

I have a black dial gold Daytona, and it's my blingiest watch. But I love how it looks and I don't care what other people think. The only time I wouldn't wear it is I were trying a case. You want jurors to be able to identify with you and not see you as someone with expensive hobbies or clothes that are out of reach for them. But that is for my client's benefit and not my own personal concern. I've worn lots of other nice watches, I just don't wear gold ones to court. Even years ago I once had a client who mentioned based on the suits I was wearing, that our firm is probably very expensive and that he would be keeping a close eye on the bills (He turned out to be a real pain in the ass and we stopped representing him, for other reasons). So even nice clothing can be an issue for some people.
 

mak1277

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
1,192
Reaction score
1,440
I’ll tell you I don’t mind being frugal in a lot of areas. But if I needed a defense attorney you’re damn sure I’d get the best (and by extension most expensive probably).
 

classicalthunde

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,049
Reaction score
545
This story is brutal, sorry man. Watch was stunning, sorry you had to let it go... I am lucky that in my specific line of work I don’t have to deal with these optics, but instead different ones... doctors are not known for their financial acumen
@George Red i have to ask - why did you just not wear it to client pitch meetings? I don’t know what industry you’re in but I imagine if someone was going to nickel and dime you over your hourly rate, they were probably going to do so regardless of what watch you were wearing...it seems a shame to let go of your grail watch for one asshole’s comments.

it’s not as flashy as a gold watch, but I can count on two handles the times in the past 10-15 years that a stranger has commented on my GMT, and most of them have been a passing “hey, nice watch man”
 

Dino944

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Messages
6,086
Reaction score
5,031
I’ll tell you I don’t mind being frugal in a lot of areas. But if I needed a defense attorney you’re damn sure I’d get the best (and by extension most expensive probably).
Reminds me of an old Mercedes Benz advertisement that said, something like, "Would you buy a less expensive parachute or crash helmet?"
 

Dino944

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Messages
6,086
Reaction score
5,031
Speaking of movie 13s...Rusty's yellow gold GMT Master ll in Ocean's 13 is pretty awesome and on another movie note, Charlie Hunnam rocks a yellow gold Daydate in "The Gentlemen" so...

(And btw, who else has spent a ridiculous amount of time during this whole covid lock-down fuckery, watching movies and trying to identify the watches?)
I didn't but there are tons of old movies with nice watches, The Deer Hunter (various Rolex watches), Planes Trains & Automobiles (Steve Martin has a yellow gold Piaget Polo on a strap), Rocky II (Rocky and Adrienne buy Rolex watches), In the Line of Fire and Fire Fox (Clint Eastwood wears what I believe was his own "Rootbeer" steel and gold GMT), Leaving Las Vegas (Nicholas Cage steel Rolex Daytona), original Thomas Crown Affair (Steve McQueen - gold Cartier Tank Cintree), remake Thomas Crown Affair (Brosnan wears a gold JLC Reverso). Lemans (Steve McQueen Heuer Monaco). Batman Forever (Val Kilmer JLC Reverso), Batman Begins (Christian Bale JLC Reverso). These are just a bunch that came to my mind. There used to be a website for watches and movies. Not sure if it still exists.
 
Last edited:

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
23,267
Reaction score
4,518
The watch definitely has hair line scratches on the bezel. Gold is relatively soft and scratches very easily. A watch that is unwrapped, and in and out of a showcase over the course of 5 years is going to get some shop wear. I once purchased a watch based on photos and it had been in the shop for about that long. I was rather disappointed with the condition, and it was far less expensive watch than a 5170G. The manufacturer agreed to polish it and did a very nice job, but I know better and don't get any of my watches polished during a service.

The lugs on these watches have a fair amount of curvature to start with, so I;m not sure that I can tell if it has or has not been polished unless it was next to other unpolished watch. Also, a watch made 5 years ago sitting in a showcase under hot lights, doing nothing, will still need a service. You might be able to go a bit longer before servicing it, but according to Patek's own website, their watches should be serviced every 5 years. https://www.patek.com/en/retail-service/services/importance-of-maintenance
When you look at enough of these, you get used to what really crisp edges should look like. I can’t be sure from the photo, but the light seems to bend ever so slightly around the lug edges. The reflections should come to sudden stop at the edge of the lug, not distort and extend up the length.

The dial is Zenith and is recalling it's own heritage, but it looks a bit too close to a Daytona. If I wanted a Zenith chrono, I'd buy one that looks like one of the classic Zenith El Primero chronographs and less like a Daytona.
The black bezel was common on 60s/70s chronographs. Not unique to the Daytona.

I was struck by the 5 years service interval. Sounds a bit excessive.
It’s common for fine watches. Used to be more like three years.

Tankier watches like Rolex can go longer, largely because the parts are cheap enough and modular enough to be replaced rather than fixed.
 

Dino944

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Messages
6,086
Reaction score
5,031
The black bezel was common on 60s/70s chronographs. Not unique to the Daytona.
I never said a black bezel was unique to the Daytona. What I pointed out is that is it is not historically a feature of Zenith's vintage El Primero chronographs. So to me this new Zenith, is borrowing more from Rolex than from its own DNA.
 

dauster

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
1,143
Reaction score
622
Alright, calling on all sharp eyes. Below are photos of a Patek 5170 I’m looking at. It’s one of the last available new from an authorized dealer. It is overseas so I can’t inspect in person.

Is it just me or does it look like the case might have been polished/refinished? The edges of the lugs appear ever so slightly softened. Or it could just be the photo / lighting. Or my paranoia.

Also, looks like there might be some hairline scratches on the bezel.

It is 2015 production. Dealer has had it for five years, which makes me worry about handling and shop wear.

Thoughts?

View attachment 1540751

View attachment 1540752

View attachment 1540753
I tried the the yellow gold in October, good chance they have not sold it and it’s an official AD so you get your names on paper. It’s in the Bay Area, PM and I can tell you more.
 

Attachments

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
23,267
Reaction score
4,518
So I was mulling over the idea of an IWC 3711 or 3713. NOS examples seem all but non-existent. I figured, why don’t I check on whether I can get a used one and have all case parts replaced by IWC, making it exactly as new? Crazy idea maybe, but more importantly I learned that IWC often does not have parts for watches over 15 years old and also have no capability to make new ones.

A 15-year-old watch is not a very old watch. I’m quite disappointed to hear IWC is so limited, but not that surprised. Most of these watch companies are now “luxury” purveyors more than anything else. Sad though. IWC used to be something else. They are truly the BMW of watches.
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

Favorite knitwear under jackets/sport coats

  • Crewneck sweater

  • Turtleneck sweater

  • Long-sleeve polo

  • Vest

  • I don't like knitwear worn with jackets/sport coats


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
454,522
Messages
9,844,835
Members
205,328
Latest member
vnttg
Top