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mak1277

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The issue for me related to in-house vs. off the shelf movements is the huge pricing disparity among watches with very similar in-house movements. I don't have a problem with off the shelf, but I have a problem with off the shelf watches that have (IMO) artificially high prices. I think this is a big reason that for me, the $1,000 - $3,000 price point is a bit of a no man's land. Besides design aesthetics, I don't see much in that range that beats out some much less expensive models in the $500 range (e.g., Tudor Ranger vs. Hamilton Khaki Field).
 

Thin White Duke

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The issue for me related to in-house vs. off the shelf movements is the huge pricing disparity among watches with very similar in-house movements. I don't have a problem with off the shelf, but I have a problem with off the shelf watches that have (IMO) artificially high prices. I think this is a big reason that for me, the $1,000 - $3,000 price point is a bit of a no man's land. Besides design aesthetics, I don't see much in that range that beats out some much less expensive models in the $500 range (e.g., Tudor Ranger vs. Hamilton Khaki Field).
Yeah I think I read on here in discussion of Bremont watches where someone said that they often LOOK very nice but they have the balls to charge $5000 for a watch with an ETA (?) movement which you can get in a watch for a tenth of the price under a different brand. When stated like that I eased up on my admiration and mild desire for one of theirs.
 

mak1277

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Yeah I think I read on here in discussion of Bremont watches where someone said that they often LOOK very nice but they have the balls to charge $5000 for a watch with an ETA (?) movement which you can get in a watch for a tenth of the price under a different brand. When stated like that I eased up on my admiration and mild desire for one of theirs.
Yes, but don't get me wrong, aesthetics are a huge part of the desire. I love Bell & Ross for example, even though you could easily make a case that they charge "too much" for watches with pedestrian movements.
 

CBrown85

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ETA movements are a solid workhorse- I assume dudes with money who don't really care about things like that outnumber dudes with money who do.
 

SprezzaBox Joey

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I get that you're an affiliate vendor here, but if you've spent time on this thread or seemed to care about watches enough not to talk like a superficial ad in the customer service royal "we," I think you'd know that this isn't the place for that post.
Hey d4nimal,

I appreciate the note. I am personally new to the platform, but my buddies at work have been using it for quite a while and love the community here. I am jumping into some threads to learn from what you all have to say as well as share whatever knowledge I have.

I am no watch aficionado, nor do I have the desire to collect rare expensive watches. But, this is an option that I truly love at an entry price.

Looking forward to hearing more from you all!
 

Ambulance Chaser

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I would far rather have a watch with a reliable, time-tested movement that has a plentiful supply of spare parts and that pretty much any watchmaker can service or repair. The problem with in-house movements - particularly all of the ones that have been developed recently - is that you have no idea how well they will work in the long run, and if you want to have them maintained you will have to send them back to the relevant company's service centre, where they will probably keep the watch for six months and charge you an arm and a leg for a service or for spare parts.
I think that's generally true of small independents. I can only imagine how long a Journe would take to service and how much it would cost. My experience with watch brands that are part of a large conglomerate--Blancpain and Glashutte Original--is that a service of an in-house movement can be completed rather expeditiously, perhaps due to greater resources.
 

WSW

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I think that's generally true of small independents. I can only imagine how long a Journe would take to service and how much it would cost. My experience with watch brands that are part of a large conglomerate--Blancpain and Glashutte Original--is that a service of an in-house movement can be completed rather expeditiously, perhaps due to greater resources.
Journe is actually pretty good on that front and bought themselves long term stability with the on-boarding of Chanel as a shareholder.

I think the discussion of outsourced movements also needs to take into account the expertise/reputation of the movement maker along with the positioning of the maison using the outsourced movements. Thus, it is one thing to stuff an ETA or a Sellita into a case and charge a few thousand, which brands like Bremont and IWC like to do. There, the value proposition is low and I see very little reason to pay the premium over other brands that use the same movements. Also, with brands like these, I'd also be skeptical of their in-house movements, some of which have questionable provenance and/or performance (see the Bremont Wright debacle).

It is another thing to use something like the F. Piguet 1185 or the JLC 920 and put them into a VC or AP. Those movements were meant for high-end watches and are held in high reverence alongside in-house movements from HH maisons.
 

clee1982

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speaking of service, what's the regular timeline, my JLC is on its 4th year, nothing needs to be looked at, so I don't plan to check up until at least full 5~6 years?
 

mak1277

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speaking of service, what's the regular timeline, my JLC is on its 4th year, nothing needs to be looked at, so I don't plan to check up until at least full 5~6 years?
Personally, I wouldn't even consider it until (a) timekeeping becomes compromised or (b) year 8 -10.
 

Ambulance Chaser

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Personally, I wouldn't even consider it until (a) timekeeping becomes compromised or (b) year 8 -10.
This is my thought as well. Losing significant amounts of time each day is a sign that a service is necessary. I sent my GO in for service ten years after purchase even though it was keeping good time, however.

For vintage watches, I am more tolerant of timekeeping deviations.
 

Dino944

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I think that it's due to various reasons.

One is market forces - consumers have been "educated" by Instagram, watch blogs and so on into thinking that a watch with an in-house movement is better and so this has pushed manufacturers to develop in-house movements in response to that (misguided) belief.

Another reason is the Swatch group - it owns ETA, which also owns Valjoux, and Swatch also owns Lemania (now called "Manufacture Breguet"). I don't know whether it ended up happening, but when Swatch bought ETA (which made a lot of movements, or ebauches, for other watch companies) there was a belief that Swatch would restrict the supply of ETA and other movements so as to guarantee that its own brands had sufficient movements. This pushed at least some watch companies to develop their own in-house movements so that they didn't have to worry about Swatch suddenly cutting off supply.

Personally, I don't really care about in-house movements. There are an awful lot of fantastic watches out there that have used movements from other companies, rather than in-house movements. Paul Newman's Rolex Daytona? Valjoux movement. Omega Speedmaster Professional? Lemania movement (also, coincidentally, used in some Vacheron-Constantin and other watches). Classic IWC Pilot watches? ETA movements. Certainly, many of these were not "off the shelf" movements - they were given additional treatment and finishing, but they were not in-house movements and they were not unique to those watches or those brands.

I would far rather have a watch with a reliable, time-tested movement that has a plentiful supply of spare parts and that pretty much any watchmaker can service or repair. The problem with in-house movements - particularly all of the ones that have been developed recently - is that you have no idea how well they will work in the long run, and if you want to have them maintained you will have to send them back to the relevant company's service centre, where they will probably keep the watch for six months and charge you an arm and a leg for a service or for spare parts.
I agree with much of what was said. I will also add that ETA is supposedly restricted from supplying movements to third parties. It has according to their own press release resulted in Sellita becoming the market leader in supplying movement's to third parties. https://www.swatchgroup.com/en/services/archive/2019/mechanical-movements-comcos-dictate-harms-swiss-watch-industry . I've seen another article similar to this.

I sometimes think too much emphasis is needlessly put on whether something has an inhouse movement. I've always believed that a watch should have a high quality movement, be it inhouse or from a third party. Of my watches approximately half of them have outsourced movements (from F. Piguet, Piaget, JLC, and Zenith). Watches like some of the basic Panerais of the early 2000s using a Unitas bothered me, as one could spend $4-5K on one, and the movement had hardly any improvements in the finishing over that found in a $750 Glycine. For me it made the Panerai seem like all shine and no substance. I also felt that way about some IWCs and other brands. Maybe if at the time Panerais and IWCs cost a lot less than they did, i would have felt differently about them.

As for service, there are those who believe one gets the same quality of service, quicker and cheaper when using an independent. It may be true when comparing some independent watchmakers and manufacturer service centers, but not all. I've sent Rolex watches in for service some using in house movements and other's with more complicated Zenith based El Primeros, and I've had both back in 4 weeks, with a cost of $600 for the Explorer II and $1,000 for the Daytona. I've also sent in Cartiers for service and had them back in 3-4 weeks. At least the last time I sent a Cartier in for service, a basic time only model the total cost was $450. While not cheap, $450-600 seemed reasonable to me. $1,000 for a chronograph is getting expensive, considering it used to be about 1/3 that price about 20 years ago...but then again some Rolex models now cost 3-4 times what they cost 20 years ago. In addition, if one were going to have a watch polished (I don't get mine polished), some have very intricate cases and bezels and I would only trust the manufacturer to polish a watch if that were needed. I've seen some independents go crazy polishing a piece and ruining bezels, lugs, and beveled edges. Finally, many years ago a family member had a friend in the jewelry business, and the guy offered to service his Rolex at a great price. He did, but it wasn't sealed properly, water got into the watch from a swimming pool and ruined it. If that had been a problem because of Rolex, Rolex would have had to make it right. The family member's friend had a small business and couldn't come up with a replacement.
 

BomTrady

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Not sure they would classify as great.
That IWC finally plugged the Portuguese with an in-house is hardly a news story - and 20-22(?) years of cashing in on an external movement! Kinda falls into the insult category. (IMO)

as for Longines and rado - iterations ontheme are hardly note worthy.

Guess, in short, let’s see how the players play-out.

self nominate for “negative nelly”
Sorry- Sort of off topic- I pray every night that Longines reissue the Silver Arrow again. It’s such a beautiful timepiece.
Does anyone believe they’ll do it? They’ve been on a reissue binge the last 10 years or so and already did one. What are the chances?
 

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