The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[an draoi]

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I know I'll probably be swimming against the current here and criticism of FPJ is akin to blasphemy, but I'm not a fan of this style of watch - where the time function is relegated to an off-centre (and, in this case, barely legible) sub-dial. The Lange 1 and Panomatic have always left me cold, but the amount of real estate given over to the date function vs the time on this watch almost makes it look like a gentle parody of those watches.

But to borrow Dino's line - if you love it, buy it. Or, if you already own it - ignore everything I just said, congratulations, and wear in in good health!

 

[Scuppers]

I know I'll probably be swimming against the current here and criticism of FPJ is akin to blasphemy, but I'm not a fan of this style of watch - where the time function is relegated to an off-centre (and, in this case, barely legible) sub-dial. The Lange 1 and Panomatic have always left me cold, but the amount of real estate given over to the date function vs the time on this watch almost makes it look like a gentle parody of those watches.

But to borrow Dino's line - if you love it, buy it. Or, if you already own it - ignore everything I just said, congratulations, and wear in in good health!

I concur, as an owner of a few FPJs, the calendrier (and later quantieme perpetuelle [tokyo]) are my least favourite Journes. While @an draoi ’s off-centre argument is not mine, it is the disproportionate chasm created by the date slide.
Similar problem with the Octa Chronograph, but that’s more the entire layout.
However, a Journe is a Journe and he is my moderne horological hero. Enjoy!

 

[benjamin831]

I know I'll probably be swimming against the current here and criticism of FPJ is akin to blasphemy, but I'm not a fan of this style of watch - where the time function is relegated to an off-centre (and, in this case, barely legible) sub-dial. The Lange 1 and Panomatic have always left me cold, but the amount of real estate given over to the date function vs the time on this watch almost makes it look like a gentle parody of those watches.

But to borrow Dino's line - if you love it, buy it. Or, if you already own it - ignore everything I just said, congratulations, and wear in in good health!

No that's great. I'd much rather have a watch that spurs debate rather than indifference, which my 5205G suffers from. I don't need to defend FP's designs as beauty is highly subjective but there's no doubt that his layouts have elicit strong reactions from the watch industry. To me, there's always something a little unsettling about FP's watches, something weirdly anthropomorphic and alien about them. Take his T10 for example, it's hauntingly beautiful yet a little disturbing.

I think his design language is engineering poetry; it is most persuasive when it creates a level of tension, drama, and unease. And I think the Calendrier, Resonance, and Tourbillon are some of his finest work; all of which are based on his first wristwatch design with a single small time aperture. There's no mistaking an FPJ when you see one.

And while the Chronometre Souverain and the Chronometre Blue are wildly popular, I think they're a bit safe, with the movement being more interesting than whats at the front.

 

[Scuppers]

No that's great. I'd much rather have a watch that spurs debate rather than indifference, which my 5205G suffers from. I don't need to defend FP's designs as beauty is highly subjective but there's no doubt that his layouts have elicit strong reactions from the watch industry. To me, there's always something a little unsettling about FP's watches, something weirdly anthropomorphic and alien about them. Take his T10 for example, it's hauntingly beautiful yet a little disturbing.

I think his design language is engineering poetry; it is most persuasive when it creates a level of tension, drama, and unease. And I think his Calendrier, Resonance, and Tourbillon are some of his finest work; all of which are based on his first wristwatch design with a single small time aperture. There's no mistaking an FPJ when you see one.

And while the Chronometre Souverain and the Chronometre Blue are wildly popular, I think they're a bit safe, with the movement being more interesting than whats at the front.

Wasn’t his first (branded) wristwatch a tourbillon souveraine in 1991 (more commonly associated with 1992)?
So “based on” is a little misdirection.

 

[chocomallo]

Honestly, the prices were not that out of whack compared to UK prices, which are in turn hgiher than US prices, which are in turn higher than prices in Japan (for vintage watches). Maybe part of this is the strong dollar, and part because Italy is under a bit of economic stress these days. The USD just goes a long way right now.

I am not going to step on the landmine discussion of this particular sub, but I've seen numerous watches in Japan, in the same or better condition than found in the US, for 25-35% lower than here, including vintage sport model Rolexes and late model used Rolexes. I have, on the other hand, seen some things that are fairly commonplace here (some pretty standard older Datejusts, for example) selling at japanese stores for over 2x the prices that are commanded here. I tried to get them to explain the differences in price, but the explanations were definitely lost in translation.

I would love to know the shops where you are finding such deals in Japan. All the popular stuff is pretty expensive in Tokyo now. The only Rolex watches I see here regularly that are a good deal are lady Datejusts. There is a huge used selection of them for good prices. Pretty much everything else seems to been as expensive or more than most other markets according to Chrono24.

 

[benjamin831]

Wasn’t his first (branded) wristwatch a tourbillon souveraine in 1991 (more commonly associated with 1992)?
So “based on” is a little misdirection.

His modern Tourbillon Souverain draws direct design DNA from his 1991 creation. No "misdirection" here.

 

[Scuppers]

I would love to know the shops where you are finding such deals in Japan. All the popular stuff is pretty expensive in Tokyo now. The only Rolex watches I see here regularly that are a good deal are lady Datejusts. There is a huge used selection of them for good prices. Pretty much everything else seems to been as expensive or more than most other markets according to Chrono24.

With @LA Guy , there is a considerable volume of watches for less than global representative pricing - yes, you won’t get a Dufour for peanuts, but you will get many a baseline Omega/Rolex etc for less.
The entire luxury resale market in Japan is consideraly cheaper for saturation products - and verification controls exceed western parameters - it is a haven for products exceeding a particular timeline (10-15years).
While, retail, opposed to resale, is quite different - I paid nearly 2x the rrp price, here, of a pair of JL in Kyoto.
And pens...they like their pens!

 

[Scuppers]

His modern Tourbillon Souverain draws direct design DNA from his 1991 creation. No "misdirection" here.

I know that. You seemed to be splitting hairs - calendrier; resonance; tourbillon all based on his first wristwatch design.
Rather redundant language.

 

[benjamin831]

I know that. You seemed to be splitting hairs - calendrier; resonance; tourbillon all based on his first wristwatch design.
Rather redundant language.

Nah, you just need to relax

 

[Scuppers]

Nah, you just need to relax

I feel so much better...

 

[Journeyman]

I would love to know the shops where you are finding such deals in Japan. All the popular stuff is pretty expensive in Tokyo now. The only Rolex watches I see here regularly that are a good deal are lady Datejusts. There is a huge used selection of them for good prices. Pretty much everything else seems to been as expensive or more than most other markets according to Chrono24.

Yes, as I mentioned a few pages back, when I had a look at a few second-hand watch places in Ueno and Nakano in Tokyo in December-January, Datejusts and Air Kings were a bit cheaper than other places (which was historically the case anyway) but models like the Daytona or Submariner seemed to be just as expensive as other places. All the Daytonas I saw were the equivalent of US$18,500 upwards.

While, retail, opposed to resale, is quite different - I paid nearly 2x the rrp price, here, of a pair of JL in Kyoto.

If I remember correctly, Japan levies considerable import duties on shoes. Unless it is during sale season, American and English shoes are horrendously expensive in Japan. Curiously, a number of Italian shoe brands didn't seem to have such a hefty mark-up - I don't know whether that was because they weren't as highly regarded as brands like Alden and Edward Green and/or whether the Italians were more willing to drop their wholesale prices so as to get into the Japanese market.

 

[Dino944]

I know I'll probably be swimming against the current here and criticism of FPJ is akin to blasphemy, but I'm not a fan of this style of watch - where the time function is relegated to an off-centre (and, in this case, barely legible) sub-dial. The Lange 1 and Panomatic have always left me cold, but the amount of real estate given over to the date function vs the time on this watch almost makes it look like a gentle parody of those watches.

For me F.P. Journe movements have always been the most attractive feature of their watches. Its the overall appearance of their watches that don't really work for me. The hands seem maybe too organic and odd looking for watches in a classically shaped case. I think they seem more fitting on the bizarre looking watches from Ikepod. I've also never really liked the ultra thin crown. Its distinctive, but not for me. I have sort of mixed feelings about their use of visible screws on the dial.

I like asymmetric dial layouts on some watches, a few of my favorites being the JLC Reverso Septantiem Platinum, JLC's Master Antoine 8 Day Reserve, and the Lange 1/Lange 1 moonphase. As a brand, Lange can leave one a bit cold.

Overall, I've seen and tried on a few FPJs, but I don't really have a desire to own one. Oh well, that leaves more FPJs for other people

 

[LA Guy]

I would love to know the shops where you are finding such deals in Japan. All the popular stuff is pretty expensive in Tokyo now. The only Rolex watches I see here regularly that are a good deal are lady Datejusts. There is a huge used selection of them for good prices. Pretty much everything else seems to been as expensive or more than most other markets according to Chrono24.

The prices on Chrono24 from the Japanese stores that I’ve seen there are higher than in the stores and on their Japanese websites (tax Included). You can find a number of them just using google or Rakuten. A few of them have storefronts in Tokyo or Osaka.

European stores tend to be the other way.

 

[Thrift Vader]

Let's get this out of the way. @Dino944 incredulity and high horse skepticism do not look well on you. and as a member on here whom i like a lot, i will address rather than dismiss.

The $100 Patek? this is how it went down:
A sportsman, who was in his prime in the 80's. (had money, fame,and the lifestyle) spent all his money. in 2006? He fell off the wagon some time ago. and was on drugs and went awol. just leaving. his stuff was with his father,who lived down the hall.
one day, the old man. (70's?) says to me "hey, you seem to like stuff. my son left these watches, you can buy them if you want. i know they are good. so a Hundo for which one you want".
(he needed money? for meds? i don't know) and he pulls out 3 watches. one is a Citizen.
the next is a pretty watch with a broken glass.says "Patek Phillipe" on it.
I know this is a thing. it's beautiful.
and 2006 me, in university. working 2 jobs. knows. - i can't afford to fix this.

but the third watch? it works. it looks nice. i put it on. it is stainless and gold. with a green crocodile band. sir, here is $100. i love it.
and i left with a $100 Ebel. I wore it for a few months before selling it to move to Japan.

Do i regret passing on the patek? not as much as others might. the "Thrift" provided. and i got what i needed.


My handle isn't "Retail Vader". I build relationships, and resources. and i know my stuff.

 

[CBrown85]

Does anyone have an opinion on this?