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LA Guy

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If you guys think its authentic, not stolen, not a redial (which would in the Rolex would crush its value) etc, and that it will only go for $5K ...ok. I guess I'm just rather surprised that it would be selling for so little in Japan. I tend to think of Japanese (not trying to stereotype) as rather serious collectors in the world of collectible watches. This is a significant watch. Its not the same as say a Datejust of which litterally millions have been produced. DJs are nice watches, but asking prices are all over the place, and are generally just based on age and condition. There really isn't anything drastic in the collector world that bumps a specific model up above all other DJs. While a Double Red Sea-Dweller is worth far more than a modern or recent 5 digit Sea-Dweller as it is historically significant to the Rolex world as it was the original Sea-Dweller, and their first production watch with a helium escape valve. It was also only produced for a few years as a "Double Red" where it says both Sea-Dweller and Submariner on the dial in red. Rolex eventually dropped the name Submariner from its dial and it simply became the Sea-Dweller and it said it in white. Furthermore, I would think that someone there would say, why not buy this watch, take a trip to Europe or the US and sell it for a huge amount more than one paid for it?

Anyway, it would be interesting to see what it eventually sells for...although I guess we won't know it sold for someone to keep or someone to bring to Europe/US to flip for a lot of $$$$.
I know nothing about this watch, and believe you. I;ve also seen some not terrific condition early Daytonas in cases for ridicukous sum. My only point was that sometimes things go for much, much less in Japan than in other places. In my short time here so far, I've found that the same watch (I've been looking mostly at Omegas, IWCs, and Rolexes of various types from the 60s-70s, mostly), that the highest prices are in the UK (for the same model, same stated condition) about the same in the EU and North America, and considerably cheaper (for IWCs, often a factor of 2-3) in Japan. I saw a yellow gold IWC from the early 60s, full set, mint condition, sell at a Japanese retailer for $2.5K. Then, and maybe I am just seeing things, but I saw the same watch, with the same paperwork, on sale, a few months later, on Chrono24 for over 2x the price, from an EU retailer. So, I guess that there is some arbitrage that some dealers do take advantage of.

Again, I don[t know that much about watches, but certainly, this is the way that vintage works. And part of the value that the reseller provides is peace of mind. But there are people who go through estate sales in the US, picking up what seems to the owners to be "pretty decent" vintage clothing, that has some obscure historical value to a niche group (which is basically collectors of anything, really) and selling them for many multiples of what they picked them up for.

Re. watches on Japanese sites - I doubt that most westerners could properly search those sites, or go in person to Tokyo or Osaka. The language barrier is significant, just for starters.
 

BLAUGRANA

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I would think it would be somewhat easy to control flipping, but it would require buying aftermarket watches and then being very strict with ADs. From what I understand the latter is already the case, but I'm guessing the former isn't. And even if they buy aftermarket pieces that could still put the ADs in a bind if the ADs best customers' are themselves the flippers.
 

Thrift Vader

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I just type what i want to find in the search bar. and if i want to buy? ask my wife to read it to me first. but you guys got google for that.

Really, I have nothing to gain in the long term from talking shite.

what i see is how i say it. Japan is awash with Rolexes. the market is full of Oysters, Datejusts,and Subs. because the culture is to get one.

then? they hit the used market. and it hits my radar.
 

emptym

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Old shirt, new (to me) watch:
1319096

Tudor with the Philippine Airlines logo, which chfi has too. Been wanting one for years.
 

emptym

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^Thanks for your help, B!
 

Journeyman

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what i see is how i say it. Japan is awash with Rolexes. the market is full of Oysters, Datejusts,and Subs. because the culture is to get one.

then? they hit the used market. and it hits my radar.
It really depends upon the model. Depending on the model, a Rolex can be ordinary, or it can be highly desirable. To an "outsider", they're all just Rolex watches, but to someone who is interested, it can mean paying a few thousand for one model but $100,000 for another model.

I haven't spent much time looking at Rolex in Japan for some years now but on my last trip there in December-January, I looked at a shop in Ameyoko in Ueno and a few shops in Nakano (where there are quite a few second-hand watch stores).

Rolex Datejust watches are a dime a dozen, and are priced accordingly. Air Kings are also freely available. Prices are more than they used to be, but that's not that unusual as it's been years since I last looked. You can pick up Datejusts and Air Kings for a few thousand dollars and they appeared to be in good condition.

However, Rolex models such as Daytona and GMT are priced comparatively (and perhaps even higher than) overseas markets. I'm no expert in Rolex, but I was surprised to see a couple of mid-1960s GMT models priced at the equivalent of about US$90,000. I didn't realise that they were that expensive, but perhaps that's just Japan.

Similarly, with Omega you can a whole lot of watches - quartz Seamasters, automatic Speedmasters - for the equivalent of a couple of thousand dollars which is quite possibly less than you'd be paying overseas. But if you want a good vintage Speedmaster or Seamaster, you will pay the same as, or higher than, the price in overseas markets.

So, although it's not impossible that a highly desirable double-red Sea Dweller is selling for $5,000 when it would sell for the better part of 10 times that in the US, it's highly unlikely as the Japanese market tends to prize the same models that are popular and collectible overseas.
 

Thrift Vader

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"Tonight in the Bar.
Wrist Clocks are a win. and there will be at least one buyer."

Edit: Flagrant Drunk post. But it remains, Those vintage movements in new cases and bands were the talk of the Bar. there was one that everybody wanted. My friend, a lady in her 40's. wants to buy the Blue Rolex. She said "I want it now!!!!!" how do i find the item on my phone?
she will probably be wearing it next time we meet.

But i want the Patek one. (waiting for work Bonus. . . )
Hey, I can have a nice watch too!
It really depends upon the model. Depending on the model, a Rolex can be ordinary, or it can be highly desirable. To an "outsider", they're all just Rolex watches, but to someone who is interested, it can mean paying a few thousand for one model but $100,000 for another model.

I
haven't spent much time looking at Rolex in Japan for some years now but on my last trip there in December-January, I looked at a shop in Ameyoko in Ueno and a few shops in Nakano (where there are quite a few second-hand watch stores).

Rolex Datejust watches are a dime a dozen, and are priced accordingly. Air Kings are also freely available. Prices are more than they used to be, but that's not that unusual as it's been years since I last looked. You can pick up Datejusts and Air Kings for a few thousand dollars and they appeared to be in good condition.

However, Rolex models such as Daytona and GMT are priced comparatively (and perhaps even higher than) overseas markets. I'm no expert in Rolex, but I was surprised to see a couple of mid-1960s GMT models priced at the equivalent of about US$90,000. I didn't realise that they were that expensive, but perhaps that's just Japan.

Similarly, with Omega you can a whole lot of watches - quartz Seamasters, automatic Speedmasters - for the equivalent of a couple of thousand dollars which is quite possibly less than you'd be paying overseas. But if you want a good vintage Speedmaster or Seamaster, you will pay the same as, or higher than, the price in overseas markets.

So, although it's not impossible that a highly desirable double-red Sea Dweller is selling for $5,000 when it would sell for the better part of 10 times that in the US, it's highly unlikely as the Japanese market tends to prize the same models that are popular and collectible overseas.
You are right on all accounts. But one thing particular to Japan. more so than other markets. Is the need to have the newest, the most pristine,And to have brand recognition.
People will buy a perfectly good house, then build a new one in the same place.
-To have a new house. one that is the current style. Great for me, I can buy a family sized house for $35,000. 50% of people want a new Car. in the currently popular style.
cool, I got a Subaru Legacy twin turbo with only 16,000 kilometers on it.for $4,000. -because it had some scratches.(which are now fixed.)

Anyway, my point is. That in this culture of having the newest, and best condition things. It really is not surprising to me that a somewhat beaten up Watch has lost a bulk of it's value.
There will be guys like me. who would look past all that. and say "eh, it's quality, and i don't have to worry about scratching it, give it a clean, and put a band on it. But that is not Rolex's customer base. no, people buy Rolex here to show that they have one. a nice one. And that watch. here? has almost no appeal.

This does not include everyone. parents in their 30's are starting to embrace my way of life. "Recycle Shops" are full of us. a generation. living a wonderful life of frugality.
But don't freak out. I love watches. and will come to acquire watches that some in here can appreciate. -not to say that there are snobs. but there are 2 threads for a reason.
And dammit, I deserve nice things too. something 30's people consider. is the long term acquirement of the things we will use until old age. The "life things". And watches are a part of it.
But 5k for a Dweller?
no, give me an ornate wrist Clock, A Ball Trainmaster,A Seiko Kinetic Titanium Scuba, and my current collection of "Poor man's" watches. haha, maybe an Oyster Date, on a black leather band. as an event watch. yeah, 5k could do that. The joy is real.

And you guys are awesome.
 
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CBrown85

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A few minutes on those knock-off watch forums and you'll see that they're manufacturing watches almost 1:1 now, even the movements. Someone who's particularly talented and ballsy could build some of those double-red sea-dwellers. I'd be extremely cautious of one at 5k.
 

ebayhtl

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After looking at grey market prices for ages without pulling the trigger, the missus decided a Hulk was in order for Xmas - ordered one by calling in a favour with a watch fanatic friend who in turn called in a favour with a dealer...!

Seen here in Uluwatu, Bali 🔥😍
 

brax

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View attachment 1322314

After looking at grey market prices for ages without pulling the trigger, the missus decided a Hulk was in order for Xmas - ordered one by calling in a favour with a watch fanatic friend who in turn called in a favour with a dealer...!

Seen here in Uluwatu, Bali 🔥😍
Very nice. I like the Hulk. Unusual but not too unusual. P.S. Just spent New Years in Bali. Really enjoyed it and the contrast (Hindu) with the rest of Indonesia (Muslim)
 

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