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jischwar

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Thanks guys for your input on Pam 422 vs Speedy. I have thought about it over the last week and this evening decided on the Pam. I will eventually have a speedy on my collection at some point. I think why I didn’t get the speedy were-
- I already have 2 stainless steel classic watches (gmt master 2 ln & datejust ||)
- There was a possibility When wearing speedy I may think of it as a lesser watch (fit / finish ,water resistance , ruggedness) - to Rolex.
- I think somehow speedy failed to sing to me the way Pam did.

Speedy is the more iconic of the two and easy to flip if needs be ,holds better value & more brand recognition. But I ended up ignoring all & buying what I liked more. I rang all the ADs and bargained super hard and was able to get great discount. Anyway here it is -
Welcome to the club! If the 47mm matches your style and you like the aesthetic than you won't be disappointed. My 1312
20190323_165819.jpg
 

Andy57

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Not in or of itself. But it has a higher shine than the alumnium inserts or steel bezels, which adds to the overall glittery sparkly blinginess of certain modern iterations.
If a GMT with a ceramic insert qualifies as "bling" then this is some strange new definition of the word with which I have been previously unfamiliar. 🤦‍♂️
 

Thrift Vader

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That's a cute fairy tale! It was amusing to read your stereotyping that the Rolex guys would be wearing poly blend suits, and that you think by commenting on someone's Speedmaster it will lead you to these special friendships. However, the story is so far fetched about how terrible the Rolex guys would be vs how cool the Speedy guys would be, that I can't help but laugh. Again, it is essentially based on your viewing a watch as needing to be something for creating positive conversations or curiosity with strangers. So your dislike a Rolex, but appreciation for say a Speedmaster is that it helps give you an "In" with certain people. I guess I've never viewed a watch as something to purchase so that I could start friendships with random people at bars.

Also, I don't understand your statement ".. . but they put the pride in their watches. like they worked for that. suffered indignities for that. saved their bonuses for the first 4 years in the job for that." What does that have to do with Rolex or any other brand?

I can certainly understand someone not liking their designs, not liking how common they seem to be, or not liking that people who know know little about watches often buy a Rolex because they think its the best watch in the world. However, you seem to bash them with nothing other than they aren't going to "Create positive conversation and curiosity" or help one make friends.
Is it not the reason one buys such things? to show and tell? is that not what happens here?

Yes, many do suffer. from over work. living in sub humane spaces, having a poor diet,societal pressures. envy, aspiration.pride. it's a terribly unhealthy lifestyle. of the office worker. the "Salary man". a culture where the elders pay for drinks, and the noobs get humiliated at every turn.
I have had to intervene. on a few occasions. and scold the piece of shit "managers".

-It's not an "Amusing fairy tale" if it is true.

For a large portion of the watch market. Brands are stepping stones. that bring with them Societal context. Rank.

The more expensive the watch? the more they clown others. and praise themselves. or pay for the night out. to receive praise. (Buy loyalty) but as said jackass basks in his own glory? the faces around look glum. they look at their watches. Their Watches. The most trusted tool they have. some with pride, some with shame.

At the behest of the Bartender, and the few noobs who need a distraction. I sing. or chat. as the resident Circus bear. The guy who stopped in to chill. but has to be an entertainer.

You throw words around.and misuse my own in reply.

However. the good folk on here who own Rolex find themselves in perhaps very different circumstances. good for you. enjoy what you like.

I am only here in the corner. looking at watches as what they mean to people.

What am i wearing when said events occurred? A 4 Dial Seiko Flightmaster Chronograph. unseen outside the Japanese Military.

I urge you to understand. that i look at things as an Anthropologist. The guy who studies people. And my feelings on the social attributes of a Brand do not correlate with how i feel about their quality and/or workmanship.
I simply dislike how marketing can create such a scenario. when quality is all around.
=without the hang ups, or the dated designs.
 
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tim_horton

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Didn't someone say there are four stages of watch appreciation?

1. Knows little about watches, and loves Rolex because they are a status symbol
2. Learns a little bit more about watches, and hates Rolex because it's too popular
3. Learns some more, and starts to appreciate Rolex
4. Learns even more, and once again loves Rolex because they are great watches with a rich history

Or something like that, I'm paraphrasing.
 
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Dino944

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For a company that is rightly credited with creating some of the most enduring classic watch designs, Rolex certainly isn't shy about churning out vast numbers of gaudy, trashy variations. The two-tones, the jewels, the mothers of pearl...

Sadly, even many of the Professional watches have been infected with bling - PCLs, jubilees, precious metals, shiny ceramics. @Andy57's side-by-side pictures of the GMTs illustrates this perfectly. And the current Daytona is positively dazzling at 50 yards.

This is not to discount the many things that Roles gets right. Nonetheless, I find it hard to take seriously the argument that Rolex have remained true to some pure ideal of no-nonsense does-what-it-says-on-the-tin watchmaking when this is the same company that gave us the Rainbow Cosmograph. In Everose.

Anyway, the debate over the kind of clientele that Rolex attracts reminds me of the infamous video of Mugabe's sons (admittedly, not exactly typical) pouring champagne over their watches a couple of years ago. At least one of the watches was in fact an horrifically tacky diamond encrusted RO, but the fact that the media almost exclusively reported the watches to be Rolexes says much about their perception in the wider public, I think.
I'm not into gem set watches, but lots of companies offer them including Patek, AP, and VC. The steel Nautilus is one of the most sought after watches in the world, but Patek offers it with plenty of bling too. I don't see these or most gem set watches being very popular in the US, but from what I hear they are popular in other parts of the world.

1279192
1279193



Actually, many of the bling factors you say have "Infected" the professional models from Rolex can be found on vintage Rolex professional models. The only relatively new change you mentioned is the ceramics. PLCs have been on Daytonas for nearly 30 years. Jubilee bracelets were an option on GMTs for many decades. I've also seen vintage Daytonas and Subs on Jubilees...back in the days when Rolex easily let people change dials or swap out bracelets. As for precious metals, Subs, Daytonas, and GMTs have been available in yellow gold for more than close to 50 years. Only in the last 20 years or so have they been available in white gold or rose gold. Personally, while I would prefer the center links to be brushed as it hides scratches better than polished links, but the only polishing I really wish they would refrain from is polishing the lugs on Daytonas. I just think the lugs look better with a brushed finish and again it hides scratches better. I do like the looks of the old aluminum bezels, but there is a purpose to the ceramics...to hide scratches and resist fading.

As for the clientele Rolex attracts, I don't think there is much a brand can do about that. Who knows, maybe I'm not the kind of client Patek, AP, or VC wants to have ;)
 

Thrift Vader

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There is though. a watch i am currently smitten with. It looks like something forged in another galaxy that fell to earth, and colored like burnt Titanium. Dark. but full of color. and all the Tech.
To me? Damn, this thing is unique. far removed from anything else.

It's a Casio Oceanus that i can't find on images. looks like something Starlord would get.
And at $2,500? It's a LOT of Casio.

Naw, it's different, maybe @LA Guy has seen it. future AF. but classic. OMG. want.
 

an draoi

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If a GMT with a ceramic insert qualifies as "bling" then this is some strange new definition of the word with which I have been previously unfamiliar. 🤦‍♂️
Then perhaps you need to get out more.😉

The vast majority of people would describe a Rolex as a piece of bling. The shiner and more ostentatious, the blingier. Of course, there is bling and there is bling, and the GMT is not the blingiest. But on the blingy scale you must admit that your lovely vintage model sits somewhere towards utilitarian and the jubilee model somewhat closer to Kardashian.
 

johnvw

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When my Uber/Grab drivers have worn Rolexes, as today's did, they have invariably been polite and pleasant individuals. I think the brand has an undeserved bad reputation.
What do Uber rides cost where you are if Uber drivers can afford Rolexes?!
 

LA Guy

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There is though. a watch i am currently smitten with. It looks like something forged in another galaxy that fell to earth, and colored like burnt Titanium. Dark. but full of color. and all the Tech.
To me? Damn, this thing is unique. far removed from anything else.

It's a Casio Oceanus that i can't find on images. looks like something Starlord would get.
And at $2,500? It's a LOT of Casio.

Naw, it's different, maybe @LA Guy has seen it. future AF. but classic. OMG. want.
I may have seen it - is it even offered outside of Japan right now? What is the model number to which you are refering, just to know that we are talking about the same thing.
 

Thrift Vader

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It's an Oceanus Chronograph. But. . all the metal is dark. the face is dark. and it throws rainbows in light. the bezel has a Tartan x Carbon vibe. it radiates.
Not sure if you can get it yet. i can try to get pics. but the camera can't do it justice.
Casio just dropped a bad boy.
 

LA Guy

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hm, does that bark texture count as bling?
Are we talking about the all gold Day-Date with the wood dial and the bark bezel and bracelet? In which case, yeah.... hard to argue otherwise. I do love something that over the top though.
 

an draoi

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I'm not into gem set watches, but lots of companies offer them including Patek, AP, and VC. The steel Nautilus is one of the most sought after watches in the world, but Patek offers it with plenty of bling too. I don't see these or most gem set watches being very popular in the US, but from what I hear they are popular in other parts of the world.

View attachment 1279192 View attachment 1279193


Actually, many of the bling factors you say have "Infected" the professional models from Rolex can be found on vintage Rolex professional models. The only relatively new change you mentioned is the ceramics. PLCs have been on Daytonas for nearly 30 years. Jubilee bracelets were an option on GMTs for many decades. I've also seen vintage Daytonas and Subs on Jubilees...back in the days when Rolex easily let people change dials or swap out bracelets. As for precious metals, Subs, Daytonas, and GMTs have been available in yellow gold for more than close to 50 years. Only in the last 20 years or so have they been available in white gold or rose gold. Personally, while I would prefer the center links to be brushed as it hides scratches better than polished links, but the only polishing I really wish they would refrain from is polishing the lugs on Daytonas. I just think the lugs look better with a brushed finish and again it hides scratches better. I do like the looks of the old aluminum bezels, but there is a purpose to the ceramics...to hide scratches and resist fading.

As for the clientele Rolex attracts, I don't think there is much a brand can do about that. Who knows, maybe I'm not the kind of client Patek, AP, or VC wants to have ;)
Oh, I'm quite aware that they're all as guilty as each other.
e4ceae31e34a9971a42e1e4770ec7794.jpg

But the discussion was about Rolex and my point was that there seems to be this idea that they (more than others) have stayed true to an ideal of honest watchmaking. I'm sure it can be argued that, to some extent and in certain aspects, they have. But they also churn out a lot of gaudy tat aimed at a certain market (I am in full-on snob mode now). And even their "no nonsense" tool watches have become more ostentatious. Whether this is deliberate, e.g. with polished parts such as you describe, or as side effect of rational design changes, such as the use of ceramic bezels, the overall effect is a blingier watch. Perhaps that trend started even earlier than I realised, but it seems to be a continuing one.

To your last comment, I suppose they (and the other guilty brands) could stop producing these watches, but this would be at the expense of their bottom lines. So of course this will never happen. The public gets what the public wants, I guess!
 

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