The vintage flight jacket thread

[Jake431]

Originally Posted by james_timothy

I wonder if Goodwear is more flexible than that, in the sense that they will cut to the customer?

I looked over the Goodwear A2 jackets and decided I liked the Bronco's square shoulders, but then I ran across this comparison- it sure looks like the new jacket is cut broader in the middle then the original. Perhaps that is a result of the model changing over the years, though.

They won't cut to the customer, but will match say, a size 44 body with size 46 arms, and they will make adjustments to body length, I think.

As for what it looks like, I can't say, but I know that the jackets measured the same (John used the original for the patterns)

-Jake

 

[blackplatano]

Originally Posted by Jake431

Actually, you have it backwards - Goodwear make the most accurate to original pattern A-2's out there. No allowances for the modern physique. So a Goodwear A-2 in a 42 will measure out like a WW2 42. Eastman makes the baggiest of the current manufacturers (though they are tuning their patterns back towards WW2 aesthetic). John (the owner/only maker) will cut your jacket to your specs however by doing a few things, such as making the body longer or shorter as you request. He's willing to have a very long detailed conversation about the fit before you even decide to get one.

I can understand the reluctance to follow the advice of a bunch of Fedora Lounge dudes, whose look is not what you are going for. But Goodwear really is the bees knees when it comes to the A-2. He also makes an A-1.

-Jake

Everything you say can be true and that wouldn't change the fact that most, if not every, picture of Goodwear jackets show a loose fit. While it might be true that Eastman makes a baggy jacket, when you size down, they are VERY trim and flatering. In a way Eastman is like the APC of repros when it comes to sizing.

Look at the goodwear jackets in this thread and compare them to this eastman.

Also, when you look at the details of the Goodwear jackets, they seem to cater to the federa lounge crowd who want a jacket with "character" even if they have to boil the jacket in hot water and take 5 years off it's lifespan. I am not attracted to this. Exagerated wear and creases seem pretentious to me. I'm not old enough to have been in WWII obviously so wearing a jacket that looks like it does not attract me.

 

[Jake431]

Originally Posted by blackplatano

Everything you say can be true and that wouldn't change the fact that most, if not every, picture of Goodwear jackets show a loose fit. While it might be true that Eastman makes a baggy jacket, when you size down, they are VERY trim and flatering. In a way Eastman is like the APC of repros when it comes to sizing.

Look at the goodwear jackets in this thread and compare them to this eastman.

Also, when you look at the details of the Goodwear jackets, they seem to cater to the federa lounge crowd who want a jacket with "character" even if they have to boil the jacket in hot water and take 5 years off it's lifespan. I am not attracted to this. Exagerated wear and creases seem pretentious to me. I'm not old enough to have been in WWII obviously so wearing a jacket that looks like it does not attract me.

Fair enough. I'm just trying to save you some money, but it sounds like your mind is made up, you want an ELC. I've owned most of the jacket makers jackets in my time - an eastman Star a-2, an RMNZ Dubow A-2, an Aero Real Deal A-2, an Aero 1940 contract A-2 and tried on several Goodwear A-2's. You can size down on an ELC but it will be too short in the body, and possibly the arms. If you don't really want one that doesn't have authentic leather, but something that is smooth and modern, AND you are willing to size down, you'd be well suited by a Gibson and Barnes jacket. They're cheaper than ELC, and you'd get your jacket a lot sooner than if you had one made by ELC.

I still think you have it backwards about Goodwear - the whole point of the company is that you shouldn't have to use hot water, sand your jacket etc, to get it to look the way a new jacket did in WW2. Goodwear owners have had to use the "hot water treatment" and sand down the finish on other manufacturers jackets. The A-2 market is starting to change these days, what with Eastman introducing "Warhorse" - which has many of the traits you don't want - grain, irregular patterns of wear and smooth etc. So if you do go with ELC, make sure you don't order a jacket made out of their warhorse.

Ironically, after trying to get an A-2 that fit me right by ordering all those jackets I mentioned above, I eventually decided that the A-2 isn't for me. I still own an RMNZ M-422a and a RMJ Stagg B-10. I've also had a few Buzz Rickson nylon jackets, but the body length just never cut it for me.

-Jake

 

[james_timothy]

Originally Posted by blackplatano

Everything you say can be true and that wouldn't change the fact that most, if not every, picture of Goodwear jackets show a loose fit.

I found this fit photo in Goodwear's photo section. It looks like the original fit was kind of loose.

Having written that, I find that I do not understand what you (or I) mean by loose or tight fit for these jackets. J's looks marginally tighter than these guys, but he said that the shoulders are a bit narrow for him.

 

[blackplatano]

Originally Posted by Jake431

Fair enough. I'm just trying to save you some money, but it sounds like your mind is made up, you want an ELC. I've owned most of the jacket makers jackets in my time - an eastman Star a-2, an RMNZ Dubow A-2, an Aero Real Deal A-2, an Aero 1940 contract A-2 and tried on several Goodwear A-2's. You can size down on an ELC but it will be too short in the body, and possibly the arms. If you don't really want one that doesn't have authentic leather, but something that is smooth and modern, AND you are willing to size down, you'd be well suited by a Gibson and Barnes jacket. They're cheaper than ELC, and you'd get your jacket a lot sooner than if you had one made by ELC.

I still think you have it backwards about Goodwear - the whole point of the company is that you shouldn't have to use hot water, sand your jacket etc, to get it to look the way a new jacket did in WW2. Goodwear owners have had to use the "hot water treatment" and sand down the finish on other manufacturers jackets. The A-2 market is starting to change these days, what with Eastman introducing "Warhorse" - which has many of the traits you don't want - grain, irregular patterns of wear and smooth etc. So if you do go with ELC, make sure you don't order a jacket made out of their warhorse.

Ironically, after trying to get an A-2 that fit me right by ordering all those jackets I mentioned above, I eventually decided that the A-2 isn't for me. I still own an RMNZ M-422a and a RMJ Stagg B-10. I've also had a few Buzz Rickson nylon jackets, but the body length just never cut it for me.

-Jake


I don't think you quite understand yet. I actually love the warhorse leather. It isn't that I want an A-2 with perfectly smooth designer style leather, it's just that I don't need it to look like it came straight out of WWII. I want to wear the jacket down myself naturally the same way that we wear raw denim. It's not that I want the leather to look like it came from ralph lauren, it's just that I don't want it to be pre-distressed or exaggerated.

I would love to see some pics of your jackets. If you sold them, I would like to know how easy it was and what the resale value is like. Also, what's your height and how short exactly are the jackets. It would be helpful to a lot of us trying to decide which jacket to go for.

 

[Jake431]

Originally Posted by blackplatano

I don't think you quite understand yet. I actually love the warhorse leather. It isn't that I want an A-2 with perfectly smooth designer style leather, it's just that I don't need it to look like it came straight out of WWII. I want to wear the jacket down myself naturally the same way that we wear raw denim. It's not that I want the leather to look like it came from ralph lauren, it's just that I don't want it to be pre-distressed or exaggerated. I would love to see some pics of your jackets. If you sold them, I would like to know how easy it was and what the resale value is like. Also, what's your height and how short exactly are the jackets. It would be helpful to a lot of us trying to decide which jacket to go for.
I gotcha. Not to sound like a broken record, but Goodwear jackets aren't pre-worn. From what I have gleaned from various collectors and conversations, the leather jackets in the 40's looked much grainer when new than leather jackets, even horsehide, today. Much of this is due to differences in animals sourced; in the 1930's and 1940's, horses were still working animals, and their hides bore evidence of a physical, toiling life, less consistent diet, and then the hides were tanned differently than now. So, think of it like this - a Goodwear is more like a NOS pair of 501's from the 40's. Other companies are more like an LVC. I'm 5'11", which isn't that tall, but all of my height is in my torso; I wear a 30 inseam. That's why many A-2's are too short for me. I haven't found one long enough yet. I don't tuck shirts in so a jacket has to be long enough to cover most of the t-shirt. So, here are a few jackets (not the best pictures): Aero, 1940 contract:

Here's one (another Aero) that fit better but was too short:

Here's a RMNZ Dubow A-2, my apologies for the blond hair, it was taken a while ago (the jacket was too short):

This is someone else's Aero. I wish it was mine:

Resale value sucks. If you are worried about that, I would recommend buying a lightly used on eBay, or working with a company who has a generous return policy. Aero's return policy is the most generous that I've found. I can't find any of my other jacket photos - for the star for instance, but if I do, I will post them Hope that helps somewhat, -Jake

 

[calbee]

I'd love one of the painted WWII jackets, but I'd be terrified to wear it...

 

[Jake431]

Originally Posted by calbee

I'd love one of the painted WWII jackets, but I'd be terrified to wear it...

Get a repro, and have my friend Jerome paint it for you. Here's his work:

http://www.picturetrail.com/jrome

-Jake

 

[mikejones]

I like styleforum.net, but if it is A-2s you want to discuss, these are the places you want to go: http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/ http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ http://vintageleatherjackets.blogspo...r-jackets.html http://www.thefedoralounge.com/ http://historypreservation.com/hpassociates/index.html And these are the manufacturers you want to check out: http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/w...Page?page=home http://www.lostworldsinc.com/index.htm http://www.gibson-barnes.com/leather.html http://www.flightjacket.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=9 http://www.cockpitusa.com/index.html http://www.eastmanleather.com/

 

[robin]

Does anyone know how much Hermes's bomber/flight jackets sell for?

 

[CRAZYBUBBA]

For a thread on vintage flight jackets this seems to be veering towards repros.

I have an original M-422 myself. There appear to be VERY, VERY few out there and even fewer for sale.

I like McCoy's repros and some Avirexes that I've seen in person especially with special patches or linings. IMO, the worst is probably lost worlds,

 

[jet]

Originally Posted by robin

Does anyone know how much Hermes's bomber/flight jackets sell for?

10k

 

[slowtrain17]

Originally Posted by Jake431

Get a repro, and have my friend Jerome paint it for you. Here's his work:

http://www.picturetrail.com/jrome

-Jake
hi.im new here,i love the a2 jackets but i dont know a lot about them lik you guys do.i have a cooper a2 and i love it,but its not warm at all.is the aero jacket warm? thank you. stephen

 

[Makeshift_Robot]

Originally Posted by jet

10k

meh, pass on that and save up for what you really want -- that 150k crocodile skin peacoat.

No 1/2 kops.

 

[brad-t]

a lot of ugly in this 2008 thread