1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

The vintage flight jacket thread

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by blackplatano, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. blackplatano

    blackplatano Senior member

    Messages:
    2,361
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
  2. robin

    robin Senior member

    Messages:
    12,416
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    I've been meaning to get a Buzz Rickson for awhile, but I want to hold off until I see Nom de Guerre's MA1 version this next season.
     
  3. AlanC

    AlanC Senior member

    Messages:
    7,805
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Location:
    Heart of America
  4. blackplatano

    blackplatano Senior member

    Messages:
    2,361
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    I've been meaning to get a Buzz Rickson for awhile, but I want to hold off until I see Nom de Guerre's MA1 version this next season.

    Isn't the NdG MA1 a rebranded buzz rickson at 2-3 times the price?

    I say get the buzz.
     
  5. blackplatano

    blackplatano Senior member

    Messages:
    2,361
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    I'm a big fan of the A-1, too. The Fedora Lounge guys are really like the Good Wear jackets. Here's their A-1.


    I'm sure that goodwear makes an increadible jacket, but their jackets don't appeal to me. They seem to exaggerate the old man-ish ness of classic flight jackets. Of course, flight jackets are not modern or anything, but they were design for young, trim soldiers and could look great on the young if the cut is trim. The Goodwear jackets seem on the other hand to be looser and go better with what a typical middle aged man would wear.

    The A-1 I posted on the other hand seems pretty classic and modern at the same time. It seems like it can be worn by a 21 year old and a 41 year old without looking out of place.

    I have not seen enough about Goodwear to have a firm position but that is the general impression I get. Of course, the things that turn me off could be the what the federa guys think are great.


    I would still like to see more on Goodwear to see what the fuzz is about though.
     
  6. robin

    robin Senior member

    Messages:
    12,416
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    Isn't the NdG MA1 a rebranded buzz rickson at 2-3 times the price? I say get the buzz.
    That's why I'm waiting to see, because I'm not sure if they're doing the rebranding/collab thing again this season like they did last year. FWIW, it looks fairly slim in their lookbook, something which the usual flight jacket is not. I agree that those Good Wear jackets seem questionable.
     
  7. j

    j Senior member Admin

    Messages:
    14,914
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Still dig my vintage Avirex A-2 [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] It's a little tight at the shoulders but otherwise fits really trim. And I lucked into a long size so it doesn't ride up completely above my belt.
     
  8. tazmaniac

    tazmaniac Senior member

    Messages:
    541
    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Location:
    Zurich, Switzerland
  9. Sharpe

    Sharpe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    79
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Nice jacket, j. Most people who get those jackets get them far too loose and their huge tummies stick out. Your jacket looks like it fits like it is supposed to. So is that a very old jacket or a repro? If it is a repro, what is the exact model/website for it?

    Also, isn't it an a-2, not a g-2?
     
  10. j

    j Senior member Admin

    Messages:
    14,914
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    You're right, it's an A-2. Edited. It was a "vintage" jacket found at a vintage store but probably not "very old", I'm guessing 70s-80s but could even be newer. Avirex goatskin. Tags are just like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vtg-AVIREX-Goats...06241323r25899 The contract number says 1978 but as in the auction, I can't be sure of the actual manufacture date. If you look up "goatskin a-2" you'll find a few options, but I don't have any experience with the various current manufacturers.
     
  11. Lel

    Lel Senior member

    Messages:
    3,386
    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Nice how much did you size down?
     
  12. j

    j Senior member Admin

    Messages:
    14,914
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    My chest measures around 39 and I usually wear a 38 or 40 depending on the shoulders, and this is a 38L. So, I didn't really size down but picked the smaller of my usual two, and the shoulders are snug, which is fine for this kind of jacket.

    On some of the sites you will see it noted when a jacket has a "normal fit" (or something) vs. a "military fit" - you want military fit, that means it fits and isn't sized to look like the dad from Growing Pains.
     
  13. Jake431

    Jake431 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    71
    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I'm sure that goodwear makes an increadible jacket, but their jackets don't appeal to me. They seem to exaggerate the old man-ish ness of classic flight jackets. Of course, flight jackets are not modern or anything, but they were design for young, trim soldiers and could look great on the young if the cut is trim. The Goodwear jackets seem on the other hand to be looser and go better with what a typical middle aged man would wear.

    The A-1 I posted on the other hand seems pretty classic and modern at the same time. It seems like it can be worn by a 21 year old and a 41 year old without looking out of place.

    I have not seen enough about Goodwear to have a firm position but that is the general impression I get. Of course, the things that turn me off could be the what the federa guys think are great.


    I would still like to see more on Goodwear to see what the fuzz is about though.


    Actually, you have it backwards - Goodwear make the most accurate to original pattern A-2's out there. No allowances for the modern physique. So a Goodwear A-2 in a 42 will measure out like a WW2 42. Eastman makes the baggiest of the current manufacturers (though they are tuning their patterns back towards WW2 aesthetic). John (the owner/only maker) will cut your jacket to your specs however by doing a few things, such as making the body longer or shorter as you request. He's willing to have a very long detailed conversation about the fit before you even decide to get one.

    I can understand the reluctance to follow the advice of a bunch of Fedora Lounge dudes, whose look is not what you are going for. But Goodwear really is the bees knees when it comes to the A-2. He also makes an A-1.

    -Jake
     
  14. Crane's

    Crane's Senior member

    Messages:
    6,237
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Location:
    Chasing tornadoes across the plains.
    I picked up a Filson Aviator A-2 style jacket yesterday. It is a very nice jacket and is well made. I like the color and the distressed look of the leather. I can't wait to wear it, for now all I get to do is roll it and treat the leather so it'll take the elements better.
     
  15. james_timothy

    james_timothy Senior member

    Messages:
    2,492
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Location:
    ~ Chicago ~
    Goodwear make the most accurate to original pattern A-2's out there.

    I wonder if Goodwear is more flexible than that, in the sense that they will cut to the customer?

    I looked over the Goodwear A2 jackets and decided I liked the Bronco's square shoulders, but then I ran across this comparison- it sure looks like the new jacket is cut broader in the middle then the original. Perhaps that is a result of the model changing over the years, though.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Jake431

    Jake431 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    71
    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I wonder if Goodwear is more flexible than that, in the sense that they will cut to the customer?

    I looked over the Goodwear A2 jackets and decided I liked the Bronco's square shoulders, but then I ran across this comparison- it sure looks like the new jacket is cut broader in the middle then the original. Perhaps that is a result of the model changing over the years, though.
    [​IMG]


    They won't cut to the customer, but will match say, a size 44 body with size 46 arms, and they will make adjustments to body length, I think.

    As for what it looks like, I can't say, but I know that the jackets measured the same (John used the original for the patterns)

    -Jake
     
  17. blackplatano

    blackplatano Senior member

    Messages:
    2,361
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Actually, you have it backwards - Goodwear make the most accurate to original pattern A-2's out there. No allowances for the modern physique. So a Goodwear A-2 in a 42 will measure out like a WW2 42. Eastman makes the baggiest of the current manufacturers (though they are tuning their patterns back towards WW2 aesthetic). John (the owner/only maker) will cut your jacket to your specs however by doing a few things, such as making the body longer or shorter as you request. He's willing to have a very long detailed conversation about the fit before you even decide to get one.

    I can understand the reluctance to follow the advice of a bunch of Fedora Lounge dudes, whose look is not what you are going for. But Goodwear really is the bees knees when it comes to the A-2. He also makes an A-1.

    -Jake


    Everything you say can be true and that wouldn't change the fact that most, if not every, picture of Goodwear jackets show a loose fit. While it might be true that Eastman makes a baggy jacket, when you size down, they are VERY trim and flatering. In a way Eastman is like the APC of repros when it comes to sizing.

    Look at the goodwear jackets in this thread and compare them to this eastman.

    Also, when you look at the details of the Goodwear jackets, they seem to cater to the federa lounge crowd who want a jacket with "character" even if they have to boil the jacket in hot water and take 5 years off it's lifespan. I am not attracted to this. Exagerated wear and creases seem pretentious to me. I'm not old enough to have been in WWII obviously so wearing a jacket that looks like it does not attract me.
     
  18. Jake431

    Jake431 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    71
    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Everything you say can be true and that wouldn't change the fact that most, if not every, picture of Goodwear jackets show a loose fit. While it might be true that Eastman makes a baggy jacket, when you size down, they are VERY trim and flatering. In a way Eastman is like the APC of repros when it comes to sizing.

    Look at the goodwear jackets in this thread and compare them to this eastman.

    Also, when you look at the details of the Goodwear jackets, they seem to cater to the federa lounge crowd who want a jacket with "character" even if they have to boil the jacket in hot water and take 5 years off it's lifespan. I am not attracted to this. Exagerated wear and creases seem pretentious to me. I'm not old enough to have been in WWII obviously so wearing a jacket that looks like it does not attract me.


    Fair enough. I'm just trying to save you some money, but it sounds like your mind is made up, you want an ELC. I've owned most of the jacket makers jackets in my time - an eastman Star a-2, an RMNZ Dubow A-2, an Aero Real Deal A-2, an Aero 1940 contract A-2 and tried on several Goodwear A-2's. You can size down on an ELC but it will be too short in the body, and possibly the arms. If you don't really want one that doesn't have authentic leather, but something that is smooth and modern, AND you are willing to size down, you'd be well suited by a Gibson and Barnes jacket. They're cheaper than ELC, and you'd get your jacket a lot sooner than if you had one made by ELC.

    I still think you have it backwards about Goodwear - the whole point of the company is that you shouldn't have to use hot water, sand your jacket etc, to get it to look the way a new jacket did in WW2. Goodwear owners have had to use the "hot water treatment" and sand down the finish on other manufacturers jackets. The A-2 market is starting to change these days, what with Eastman introducing "Warhorse" - which has many of the traits you don't want - grain, irregular patterns of wear and smooth etc. So if you do go with ELC, make sure you don't order a jacket made out of their warhorse.

    Ironically, after trying to get an A-2 that fit me right by ordering all those jackets I mentioned above, I eventually decided that the A-2 isn't for me. I still own an RMNZ M-422a and a RMJ Stagg B-10. I've also had a few Buzz Rickson nylon jackets, but the body length just never cut it for me.

    -Jake
     
  19. james_timothy

    james_timothy Senior member

    Messages:
    2,492
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Location:
    ~ Chicago ~
    [​IMG]
    Everything you say can be true and that wouldn't change the fact that most, if not every, picture of Goodwear jackets show a loose fit.

    I found this fit photo in Goodwear's photo section. It looks like the original fit was kind of loose.

    Having written that, I find that I do not understand what you (or I) mean by loose or tight fit for these jackets. J's looks marginally tighter than these guys, but he said that the shoulders are a bit narrow for him.
     
  20. blackplatano

    blackplatano Senior member

    Messages:
    2,361
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Fair enough. I'm just trying to save you some money, but it sounds like your mind is made up, you want an ELC. I've owned most of the jacket makers jackets in my time - an eastman Star a-2, an RMNZ Dubow A-2, an Aero Real Deal A-2, an Aero 1940 contract A-2 and tried on several Goodwear A-2's. You can size down on an ELC but it will be too short in the body, and possibly the arms. If you don't really want one that doesn't have authentic leather, but something that is smooth and modern, AND you are willing to size down, you'd be well suited by a Gibson and Barnes jacket. They're cheaper than ELC, and you'd get your jacket a lot sooner than if you had one made by ELC.

    I still think you have it backwards about Goodwear - the whole point of the company is that you shouldn't have to use hot water, sand your jacket etc, to get it to look the way a new jacket did in WW2. Goodwear owners have had to use the "hot water treatment" and sand down the finish on other manufacturers jackets. The A-2 market is starting to change these days, what with Eastman introducing "Warhorse" - which has many of the traits you don't want - grain, irregular patterns of wear and smooth etc. So if you do go with ELC, make sure you don't order a jacket made out of their warhorse.

    Ironically, after trying to get an A-2 that fit me right by ordering all those jackets I mentioned above, I eventually decided that the A-2 isn't for me. I still own an RMNZ M-422a and a RMJ Stagg B-10. I've also had a few Buzz Rickson nylon jackets, but the body length just never cut it for me.

    -Jake



    I don't think you quite understand yet. I actually love the warhorse leather. It isn't that I want an A-2 with perfectly smooth designer style leather, it's just that I don't need it to look like it came straight out of WWII. I want to wear the jacket down myself naturally the same way that we wear raw denim. It's not that I want the leather to look like it came from ralph lauren, it's just that I don't want it to be pre-distressed or exaggerated.

    I would love to see some pics of your jackets. If you sold them, I would like to know how easy it was and what the resale value is like. Also, what's your height and how short exactly are the jackets. It would be helpful to a lot of us trying to decide which jacket to go for.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by