1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

The Vacuum Test: Meile Blue Moon vs. Dyson 14+

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Artisan Fan, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. computerpro3

    computerpro3 Senior member

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    What does a better job from a filtration standpoint? How do you measure filtration performance?
    By using a particle counter at the exhaust of the vacuum, as well as around any seams in the body. You can find plenty examples of this on youtube (though half of them are by marketing shills). Even the HEPA Dysons leak a fair amount of particulate because the air pathway leading to the HEPA filter is not sealed. That's why you always get that "vacuum" smell even with a fresh cannister. People have gotten so used to it that they either don't even realize it exists, or just think that's how vacuums smell. To put in in perspective, I am totally comfortable sticking my face two inches away from my Miele Jazz's exhaust. I smell absolutely nothing, and particle counters actually read 0 parts. If you open it up, Miele actually has rubber seals, o-rings, and liners around every seam in the vacuum where air can get out. The actual bag compartment is ingeniously designed - not only is it lined with a rubber seal, but it has negative pressure when the vacuum is turned on so the shell is sucked and clamped down on the seal. It's 100% airtight, and the only place the air can go is through an initial large particulate filter, and then through the charcoal activated, electro statically charged filter. There are only a couple of truly sealed vacuum brands out there. Again though, it may not matter much to most people - especially if you don't have allergy problems. The Dyson still filters better than the Eureka crap sold at Wal-Mart. It's just not truly HEPA compliant or hypoallergenic, which was very important to me since I have allergies and live in an old building. It totally depends on the building you live and whether you have pets, carpets, allergies, etc, but I think a fair number of people would be shocked at the respiratory difference a good sealed vacuum can make. Not only that, but it's a noticeable reduction in how often I have to dust my electronics, glass surfaces, and air conditioner filters.
     
  2. A Y

    A Y Senior member

    Messages:
    5,592
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Location:
    Southern California
    Any thoughts on the Rainbows that use water as a filtering element? A friend just got a vintage one and loves it.

    --Andre
     
  3. computerpro3

    computerpro3 Senior member

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Any thoughts on the Rainbows that use water as a filtering element? A friend just got a vintage one and loves it. --Andre
    I've never personally used a particle counter on a Rainbow (I have with Dyson and Miele) but from what I have read on the forums they filter quite well. People have said they can be a pain with the water occasionally though! There does seem to be some debate about using water as the ONLY filtration method (without a secondary sealed HEPA filter) as the company Hyla does, as the problem of bubbles may present itself (bubbles bursting on the surface may contain particulate that has passed through the water). To emphasize just how great the difference is between a normal vacuum and a truly sealed HEPA compliant model, the vacuums have 99.99% efficiency down to .3 microns with a 0 particulate reading. To put that in perspective, these vacuums meet requirements to remove asbestos and lead dust! Of course, some people just want to remove cat hair from the carpet, and normal vacuums are great for that. I just like to be sure that what I suck up actually gets removed from the house!
     
  4. Tench

    Tench Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Location:
    Os tincae
    I never picked AF as someone who would use a vacuum. That is what your maid is for.

    Tench
     
  5. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Senior member

    Messages:
    32,345
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    By using a particle counter at the exhaust of the vacuum, as well as around any seams in the body. You can find plenty examples of this on youtube (though half of them are by marketing shills).

    Even the HEPA Dysons leak a fair amount of particulate because the air pathway leading to the HEPA filter is not sealed. That's why you always get that "vacuum" smell even with a fresh cannister. People have gotten so used to it that they either don't even realize it exists, or just think that's how vacuums smell. To put in in perspective, I am totally comfortable sticking my face two inches away from my Miele Jazz's exhaust. I smell absolutely nothing, and particle counters actually read 0 parts. If you open it up, Miele actually has rubber seals, o-rings, and liners around every seam in the vacuum where air can get out. The actual bag compartment is ingeniously designed - not only is it lined with a rubber seal, but it has negative pressure when the vacuum is turned on so the shell is sucked and clamped down on the seal. It's 100% airtight, and the only place the air can go is through an initial large particulate filter, and then through the charcoal activated, electro statically charged filter.

    There are only a couple of truly sealed vacuum brands out there. Again though, it may not matter much to most people - especially if you don't have allergy problems. The Dyson still filters better than the Eureka crap sold at Wal-Mart. It's just not truly HEPA compliant or hypoallergenic, which was very important to me since I have allergies and live in an old building. It totally depends on the building you live and whether you have pets, carpets, allergies, etc, but I think a fair number of people would be shocked at the respiratory difference a good sealed vacuum can make. Not only that, but it's a noticeable reduction in how often I have to dust my electronics, glass surfaces, and air conditioner filters.


    This is very odd since my Miele has about as bad a vacuum smell as anything. Sure it has rubber seals everywhere but so does my Dyson. I believe the Dyson is simply a better design and I would have preferred the Miele win since I spent almost $1,200 on it.
     
  6. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Senior member

    Messages:
    32,345
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
  7. computerpro3

    computerpro3 Senior member

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    This is very odd since my Miele has about as bad a vacuum smell as anything. Sure it has rubber seals everywhere but so does my Dyson. I believe the Dyson is simply a better design and I would have preferred the Miele win since I spent almost $1,200 on it.
    It is defective if it has a vacuum smell. Get them to cover it under warranty. EDIT: Wait a minute, what model do you have? Are you comparing something like a 20 year old vacuum to a brand new Dyson? For reference, I'm speaking of a Miele S7 series upright.
    I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Either way, it doesn't really matter what some website with commission links to Dysons says. Particle counters don't lie. I encourage you, go search for videos. Better yet, if you're truly interested in your health (and not just in winning an argument on an internet forum), buy a particle counter and test it for yourself. I have used them on both vacuums and have seen it for my own eyes. The Dysons are not truly sealed. After all, you wouldn't want to suffer allergies needlessly! In several areas a valid argument can be made that the Dyson is equivalent or superior to a Miele. Filtration is simply not one of them.
     
  8. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Senior member

    Messages:
    32,345
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    My Blue Moon is roughly ten years old so the comparison is perhaps not fair but I've maintained it well and I have lots of experience using it.

    In several areas a valid argument can be made that the Dyson is equivalent or superior to a Miele. Filtration is simply not one of them.

    You keep making these claims but I see no evidence. Have you any evidence in terms of an independent study on filtration?
     
  9. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Senior member

    Messages:
    14,501
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    Location:
    A bit better than yesterday, all day vomiting for
    My Blue Moon is roughly ten years old so the comparison is perhaps not fair but I've maintained it well and I have lots of experience using it.

    Is anyone else extremely surprised by the revelation that Fran uses a vacuum cleaner?
    I must say I am.
     
  10. computerpro3

    computerpro3 Senior member

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    My Blue Moon is roughly ten years old so the comparison is perhaps not fair but I've maintained it well and I have lots of experience using it.
    You didn't think for just a second that the lack of suction in the Miele vs. a brand new Dyson may be because...wait for it....it's ten years old? In ten years, no wonder you're getting a vacuum smell. I wouldn't be surprised if the rubber seals are worn out, there are cracked panels, etc. When was the last time it was professionally serviced? How often did you replace the HEPA filter? Did you replace it with the cheaper one or the true HEPA filter? Mieles, like Simplicity, Riccar, etc, can all mechanically last forever with little servicing. But they won't perform optimally without it. Think of them like performance cars.
    Unfortunately, there's been no scientific studies done that Grado RS-1's are better than Koss Portapros. Guess you should stick to the Koss. I've told you multiple times. Multiple people, in multiple parts of the world, with multiple particle counters have measured the air quality coming from both Dyson and Miele vacuums. Invariably, the Dyson spews particulate and the Miele doesn't. These are calibrated scientific instruments being used by industry professionals. Sure, in some of the videos the people have a vested interest in selling Miele, but that doesn't change the fact that the entire thing is videotaped and you can watch the entire measuring process with your own eyes. I don't know what more to tell you. If that's not good enough for you, you might as well stick to Two Buck Chuck - there are no scientific studies showing Sea Smoke Ten to be superior to it, despite that we know for a fact it's made with higher quality, more attention to detail, more planning, and higher raw materials. The conclusion is yours to draw; I'm already enjoying my improved health and living environment.
     
  11. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Senior member

    Messages:
    32,345
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
  12. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Senior member

    Messages:
    32,345
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    You didn't think for just a second that the lack of suction in the Miele vs. a brand new Dyson may be because...wait for it....it's ten years old?

    In ten years, no wonder you're getting a vacuum smell. I wouldn't be surprised if the rubber seals are worn out, there are cracked panels, etc. When was the last time it was professionally serviced? How often did you replace the HEPA filter? Did you replace it with the cheaper one or the true HEPA filter?


    Just because the Blue Moon is ten years old is not reason enough for poor suction. I've tried current Mieles and the Dyson has better suction.

    I take care of my things. The HEPA filter is replaced every 12 months as suggested. Miele has a place to put in the installation date.

    Miele is a good vac but Dyson is simply better and you don't have to buy pricey bags.
     
  13. computerpro3

    computerpro3 Senior member

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Here is a test by Miele of a DC25 that shows good filtration by Dyson, second only to Miele.

    http://www.mieleusa.com/products/ben...72&benefit=119


    Yes, excatly what I've been saying.

    [​IMG]

    The Dyson emitted 21x more particulate than the Miele.

    How is that any different from what I've been saying all along?
     
  14. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Senior member

    Messages:
    32,345
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Yes, excatly what I've been saying.

    [​IMG]

    The Dyson emitted 21x more particulate than the Miele.

    How is that any different from what I've been saying all along?


    It's not different but I had to find the link. I was only asking for you to post some evidence.

    Moreover, this was a study commissioned by Miele. I'm not sure if it is unbiased as a result.
     
  15. computerpro3

    computerpro3 Senior member

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    It's not different but I had to find the link. I was only asking for you to post some evidence.

    Moreover, this was a study commissioned by Miele. I'm not sure if it is unbiased as a result.


    It's an interesting study. I actually had no idea the Sebo was that bad. Imagine what those $50 Walmart specials must be like?
     
  16. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

    Messages:
    1,303
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    

    If the consensus was that the dyson was a poor choice, what was the consensus for a vacuum cleaner with a superior design for the brushes? Was it Miele? If it was Miele, is there a difference in brush design between all the different classes of Miele vacuums?

    Also, what was the consensus on those message boards about uprights vs canisters? I've grown up using uprights so I'm leaning towards getting one but that's just because I'm used to them.
     
  17. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,321
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Our old Hoover broke last week and can't be repaired. We're currently considering a Dyson, Miele, or Shark. Anyone have any thoughts on the three? Edmorel, Artisan Fan, and gdl203 seemed pretty happy with their Dysons. But a lot of online reviewers say they aren't pleased w/ Dysons after loving them initially.

    Love to hear people's current thoughts on these or other vacuums. We're leaning towards a canister or something that convert between the two, like various Shark models, but are open to anything.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
  18. otc

    otc Senior member

    Messages:
    14,213
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Dysons have so much plastic and a lack of longevity...but they do suck well. Bagless models are never going to filter the air as well though, and I find that a single bag translates into MANY emptyings of a bagless.

    The sharks have the same problem (but worse) although a couple places review them highly as a budget vac, acknowledging that they won't last forever (but if you are buying for like...a first apartment after college, who cares).

    The miele's still score pretty dang highly, especially if you optimize which features you get to avoid paying too much. For example, the differences between the cheapest S7 Upright and the higher models are pretty insignificant (you get an LED headlight, and some button controls instead of a knob...Also some of them come with extra filters, but those can still be bought for the cheapest model). But the cheapest canister is not useful if you have any big rugs or carpet--there, you really need to upgrade to a model that has one of the better power brushes.
    Also, unfortunately, the Miele attachments are kind of sad (although, so are the Dyson ones)...the brush attachment is a tiny, short bristled, joke....but just go on ebay and get something with nice horsehair bristles for $10 or so.
     
  19. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,321
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Thanks OTC. That all makes sense. Although, I think Shark does make some bagless models that are sealed.

    I'm definitely leaning toward a bagged model, particularly the Miele Delphi, which is probably the cheapest one w/ a powered brush. We do have some medium pile carpet, which seems to require it. I'd read that the only differences between that and the Titan are that the Titan includes an extra brush and the HEPA filter, both of which can be added later and for less than the diff between the two models. One site compared the Miele to Kenmores, which get high ratings from Consumer Reports. It said that while the Kenmores cost 1/2 to 1/3 of a Miele, they break about three times as quickly. So the Miele makes better financial in the long run. Environmental too. Theres a new Hoover Air Cordless that gets high reviews too. May check that out too.

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  20. lefty

    lefty Senior member

    Messages:
    9,569
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by