The Urban, Cosmopolitan, Elitist/Middle American Divide

[RJman]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

The sky is clear and the sun appears;
Rain fall and the earth is moistened.
Without restraint he has explained everything.
Yet how few are able to grasp it!
-Mumon

Every rose has its thorn
Just like every night has its dawn
Just like every cowboy sings his sad sad song
Every rose has its thorn
-Michaels

 

[gamelan]

Originally Posted by RJman

Every rose has its thorn
Just like every night has its dawn
Just like every cowboy sings his sad sad song
Every rose has its thorn
-Michaels

-Jeff

 

[RJman]

Originally Posted by gamelan

-Jeff

ideally he'd be holding a lighter but yeah.

 

[Mark from Plano]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

The sky is clear and the sun appears;
Rain fall and the earth is moistened.
Without restraint he has explained everything.
Yet how few are able to grasp it!
-Mumon

Originally Posted by RJman

Every rose has its thorn
Just like every night has its dawn
Just like every cowboy sings his sad sad song
Every rose has its thorn
-Michaels

I hitched a ride with a vending machine repair man.
He said he's been down this road more than twice.
He was high on intellectualism.
I've never been there but the brochure looks nice.
-Crow

 

[redcaimen]

Originally Posted by RJman

Every rose has its thorn
Just like every night has its dawn
Just like every cowboy sings his sad sad song
Every rose has its thorn
-Michaels

I dont get this. Rose/thorn check. Cowboy/sad song check. Night/dawn ? What is he, a vampire?

 

[Tck13]

Originally Posted by Augusto86

But think about it this way: you can find movies/books/films critiquing city life's flaws - crime, anonymity, pollution, race violence, drugs, poverty; and you can find paeans to urban diversity, culture, art, energy, efficiency, and so forth. Ditto for the country - you have art that brutally critiques parochialism, racism, harsh tradition, ignorance; and there elegies to the communal spirit, 'naturalness', tradition, and stability of rural life.

For cookie-cutter suburbia, though, where is the artistic praise? Where are the elegies to living that life? You could argue that the community of intellectuals suppresses anyone who tries to do so, but we all know that there are always artists who just like to piss off other artists. I really can't think of a single movie about how great suburbia is, a single novel, a single painting. Maybe Norman Rockwell, but even he is more of an idealized small-town America, which is a totally different thing.



I don't think there's anything wrong with the PEOPLE in suburbia - I think there's something wrong with the overarching structure of it. Think of it like Communism - how would you feel if I said that "The things I view as permanent and important, love, friendships, raising a family, adhering as best one can to conduct you have come to believe is decent and just, being alive and grateful for it" was a valid response to criticism of Cuba or China or Russia? Now, suburbia may not be as bad as Communism, but it has some SERIOUS defects:
- Reliance on cars - quite simply, the single biggest reason our society guzzles so much gas is the physical layout of suburbia.

- Aesthetics/Sustainability - the cookie cutter suburb is in no way integrated with the environment around it. It looks physically brutal when it's just shoe-horned in, and often makes no sense in terms of local conditions - rather than building houses that conform to local weather(thick walls/high ceilings in the heat) you just stick in central heating & air and burn oil to stay comfortable. No water out in the middle of Arizona? No problem, just drain the Ogallala Aquifer to keep your lawns green. In fact, the whole concept of lawns is fucked up. It made sense in England - not so much in Texas. Yet many Americans act like it's in the Bill of ******* Rights.

- Homogeneity - in a country that has the climate and terrain variation of all of Europe+Northern Africa, you get the same-looking places from Maine to Charlotte to Houston to LA...WTF? Doesn't that bother you a little?

- Export - we've convinced the world they not only ought to live like this, but that they DESERVE to. And the world can't support 6 billion living like the American suburbs. It can barely support the current way of life.

Your posts and pics touch on what Sprawl has done to the Community.

There are several books which touch on Sprawl's effects which have been spoken of indirectly in this thread.

Suburban Nation - The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream

 

[Augusto86]

*sigh* Just be glad you never met my father - he was fond of suggesting that groups he disliked(smokers, lawnmowing people, rapists, and about 1000 others) be dragged up against the wall and shot. Side effect of growing up under a junta, maybe. Compared to him, I'm a paragon of tolerance...

I am judgmental, and perhaps my judgments are sometimes petty. I am certainly arrogant.

I wouldn't equate lawns with travel, personally. Obviously it was a joke, but I guess I took it personally because I am a pretty low-impact person - I bike a lot, take the T, reuse, recycle...but I will admit to the hypocrisy there. Still, if I had to pick a polluting feature of the modern world that should be tolerated, travel would be at the top, and lawns near the bottom.

I don't know, this threat makes me feel tired. I feel very strongly and yet I know my opinions are those of 'callow youth.' Call me in 15 years when I have a family and maybe I'll have reversed. I hope not, though. I do think I know better than a lot of people. I'd rather think too highly of my opinions and be wrong than not have the conviction of them.

I used to think, live and let live. I fear that if I do, others will destroy the world I love while I let them. There is a positive side to development, but at this point, I am blind to it - all I see is the waste and destruction of natural land.

 

[Saucemaster]

Originally Posted by Augusto86

all I see is the waste and destruction of natural land.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[redcaimen]

Originally Posted by Augusto86

*sigh* Just be glad you never met my father - he was fond of suggesting that groups he disliked(smokers, lawnmowing people, rapists, and about 1000 others) be dragged up against the wall and shot. Side effect of growing up under a junta, maybe. Compared to him, I'm a paragon of tolerance...

I am judgmental, and perhaps my judgments are sometimes petty. I am certainly arrogant.

I wouldn't equate lawns with travel, personally. Obviously it was a joke, but I guess I took it personally because I am a pretty low-impact person - I bike a lot, take the T, reuse, recycle...but I will admit to the hypocrisy there. Still, if I had to pick a polluting feature of the modern world that should be tolerated, travel would be at the top, and lawns near the bottom.

I don't know, this threat makes me feel tired. I feel very strongly and yet I know my opinions are those of 'callow youth.' Call me in 15 years when I have a family and maybe I'll have reversed. I hope not, though. I do think I know better than a lot of people. I'd rather think too highly of my opinions and be wrong than not have the conviction of them.

I used to think, live and let live. I fear that if I do, others will destroy the world I love while I let them. There is a positive side to development, but at this point, I am blind to it - all I see is the waste and destruction of natural land.

I hear you. Im tired and this is the only thread I have been arguing in. My solution (and I think its worth a try) is to open a bottle of Merlot (im not persnickety about wine either) and re watch project runway with my better half. I think the punk skank should have been dumped or that guy that made the diaper dress. That gay chinese guys dress sucked, but was it the worst? Just another injustice we must all accept for our own peace of mind.

 

[Augusto86]

Originally Posted by redcaimen

I hear you. Im tired and this is the only thread I have been arguing in. My solution (and I think its worth a try) is to open a bottle of Merlot (im not persnickety about wine either) and re watch project runway with my better half. I think the punk skank should have been dumped or that guy that made the diaper dress. That gay chinese guys dress sucked, but was it the worst? Just another injustice we must all accept for our own peace of mind.
My bottle is Carmenere, my better half is asleep, and I'm watching sitcoms. Otherwise, I'm with you.

Originally Posted by Saucemaster

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

I'm not insulted - I'm flattered!

 

[JesseJB]

Originally Posted by Tck13

Your posts and pics touch on what Sprawl has done to the Community.

There are several books which touch on Sprawl's effects which have been spoken of indirectly in this thread.

Suburban Nation - The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream



Thats a great book.

 

[Piobaire]

Interesting thread. Interesting too, to see who is looking for some sort of tolerance for each setting, and who is supercilious/derogatory/aloof/etc. about people that live in settings other than their preferred one.

I grew up small town/rural. I liked it but soon realized the horizons of folks were limited. I eventually ended up in a large rust belt city, and figured out many of those folks have even more limited horizons! Of course, there was the party scene, both open and underground, which was great for that time in my life.

I think many people change settings through their life span. I am in an MSA that cracks the Top 50 now, has a major university, and a fairly diverse ethnic make up. I guess I live in what would be called the 'burbs for this city, albiet it is far from the ant hills Augusto has posted. I refer to this MSA as the lowest level of civilization I am willing to accept. It fits my current lifestyle needs perfectly.

As to the 'burbs "sucking the life" out of cities? Every morning on my 25 minute commute, I see people just like me, headed into the city. I see upper managers, doctors, lawyers, engineers, all driving into their city place of business. So what would happen if these "life suckers" went away?

Is this divide created by the media? No, I think it has existed since Sumaria.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by RJman

Every rose has its thorn
Just like every night has its dawn
Just like every cowboy sings his sad sad song
Every rose has its thorn
-Michaels

Originally Posted by gamelan

-Jeff

Dude, have you never been to a poison concert? For Every Rose, you don't

, you

 

[JesseJB]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

As to the 'burbs "sucking the life" out of cities? Every morning on my 25 minute commute, I see people just like me, headed into the city. I see upper managers, doctors, lawyers, engineers, all driving into their city place of business. So what would happen if these "life suckers" went away?

Is this divide created by the media? No, I think it has existed since Sumaria.


And what happens at 5pm when they all leave the city?

 

[RJman]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Is this divide created by the media? No, I think it has existed since Sumaria.

Yes, they hated those "bridge and tunnel" Assyrians.