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The Ultimate Vass (Footwear) Thread (Pictures, reviews, sizing, etc...)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    I think the basis for a handmade shoe is esthetics and the value of craftsmanship. If practical benefit is all you seek, you get diminishing returns after cemented mass made shoes.
     
  2. stevent

    stevent Senior member

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    Think dfw posted about stitches though not sure which thread
     
  3. Torsion

    Torsion Senior member

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    My first pair of Vass arrived on Friday.
    OE II on the F last in 6125 dark cognac, double to single sole with metal toe plates.
    Thanks to this thread and opinions/advice from a few members I decided on EUR 40.5 and its (thankfully) worked out.Always a nervous time when e-sizing, especially Vass and the cost.
    Top class proxy service from SF member Notch for these (also another pair on order!)
    For those that are researching, I wear UK 6.5E in C&J 348/358 lasts which are a very good fit for me width and length wise although some occasional heel slippage.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The fit of these are very good, the right foot feels pretty perfect, left foot feels a tad wide but I'm only human :)
    There is room in the toe in terms for comfort, the vamp a little more height than my C&J.
    The next pair on order is a DM on the K last which I'm guessing will be lower in vamp height and definitely sleeker although these OE II will be staple in my rotation!

    Photos are from my phone so apologies for any quality issues.I spent yesterday morning (post photos) conditioning and polishing in readiness for their maiden voyage this week :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  4. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Please. Are you able to visibly spot the difference between 7.5 stitches per inch and 10? I doubt it. And I doubt it could be said that the former looks better than the latter on anything other than an arbitrary basis.

    Would 20 stiches per inch look better to your oh-so-sophisticated eye?

    Of course aesthetics matter. I'm not really seeing that as an advantage here, though. One could just as validly - and just as subjectively - declare that 7.5 stitches per inch "looks better" than 10.
     
  5. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Torsion - those are real beauties. I'm quite partial to the F-last OE II myself. Wear in good health. [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    I am not always counting stitches per inch but I can see different qualities of finishing. My G&G bespoke are around 10-11 per inch (that I've measured). Cleverley bespoke is about the same but the overall finish is not as nice, though it is cheaper. JLP bespoke is very nice. It is much more refined with finer stitches, a more flowing last and less severe waist. But at $8k I can't justify the JLP premium over G&G, even though it is nicer. So for me that is the point of diminishing returns.
     
  7. Louis XIV

    Louis XIV Senior member

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    Torsion, the lacing is closed before you have broken the shoe in.
    Either your instep is too low for the F last or, if you can pull it off lengthwise, you should go with EU40 for further purchases.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Well I wasn't commenting on overall finishing. Do you imagine that anyone would dispute that overall finishing is important in a high end shoe? I inquired as to whether there was practical benefit to 10 stitches per inch versus 7.5. You said practical benefits aren't all that matter, aesthetics count. Okay, so is there an aesthetic benefit to 10 stitches per inch versus 7.5? I am guessing your answer to that is "no"? If you had to measure your G&G bespoke to determine that there were 10-11 per inch, it's obviously not something you can just look at and see.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  9. j ingevaldsson

    j ingevaldsson Senior member

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    Lovely shoes Torsion! But like Louis states it is a problem that the laces are fully closed when new. When the shoes have been broken in you could have problems lacing them tight enough. The F-last (and U and K) have a pretty high instep, so nothing that uncommon. If the fit like you seem to think is good otherwise, you could easily solve this though, by having a good cobbler insert a leather distance on the inside of the tounge. I actually have had this made with a pair of Vass myself, you can see pics and read about it on my blog here (it's the 3-eyelet derbys): http://shoegazingpunktse.blogspot.se/2013/05/guide-korrigeringar-av-passform-2.html

    Use the translation tool on the left hand side to translate it to your language. The shoes fit great after I had the cobbler fix this, and didn't cost that much.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  10. Torsion

    Torsion Senior member

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    Hmmm interesting thoughts on the sizing guys - I may flip these and try a half size smaller, is it really an issue you guys have experienced before.
    Would like people like RogerP to also comment, when you get Vass oxfords do they tighten up straight away like mine?
    Length wise they measure very similar if not a little shorter than my other shoes.
    Bit of a tough one - need other opinions and how much these may loosen up after breaking in...

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  11. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    Are we still discussing the difference between Vass vs west end stitching? If so, G&G bespoke stitching looks tighter to me than Vass. I can't tell you if it is because of the different technique, stitches per inch or combination thereof.
     
  12. Akeem

    Akeem Senior member

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    I wear 40.5 in the f last and i am a uk 7 in almost every english brand. If you are a 6.5, then 40 may possibly be a better fit. But Ive had 2 pairs of vass that were both 40.5 f last and one pair was a bit larger than the other. Sometimes the sizing is not always exact
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Torsion - I agree that it is not ideal for the laces to be fully closed at first wearing - but it is not far from ideal, IMO (maybe a 1/4" separation at the top).

    I think it a bit of an oversimplification to say you need to go a half size down because of the closed lacing alone - for example - you may need every bit of the length that this size gives you and half a size down could compromise that.

    When it comes to less than perfect fit (and a shoe can fit less than perfectly but still be comfortable and look good), a bit large is much better than a bit small. If, when the shoes break in and stretch a bit, you find a bit too much room over the instep, then an insole or a tongue pad may provide an entirely adequate solution.

    But much depends on how they fit now - which you know better than any of us. Is there already space over your instep, or do the laces just close? Is there a lot of room in the forefoot? Noticeable extra length? Heel slip? If yes, then a half size down may be the better bet. If no, then I wouldn't size down.

    For reference, here is how my tri-cognac oxfords fit when new (and they are now pretty much completely closed):


    [​IMG]
    Smart to get a wide range of input from others - but you are in by far the best position to make the call.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  14. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    We were never discussing the execution of the stitching by one brand as compared with another. We were discussing whether there is either an aesthetic or a functional benefit to 10 stitches per inch versus 7.5 stitches per inch, regardless of who made what shoe. Is the quality improved in some articulable way? Does an extra 2.5 stitches per inch always look better? Would 12 or 15 stitches per inch necessarily look better than 10? I'm just not hearing a supportable affirmative response to any of those questions.

    Out of curiosity - what is the price of G&G Bespoke? I only have one pair of G&G RTW - and they are already significantly more costly than most of Vass shoes. I assume that gap would widen with bespoke, but as I have never gone that route, I don't know. I certainly would not put the overall finish of G&G RTW ahead of Vass (I have looked over a broad cross-section of G&G offerings in person at a local retailer) . Though I am very fond of my single pair of G&G.
     
  15. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    You can assume it to be around to £3,000
     
  16. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Hmmm - 1 pair of G&G bespoke vs. a whole shoe wardrobe (7 or 8 pair) of Vass? G&G better damned well have nicer stitching.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. justinkapur

    justinkapur Senior member

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    This information is completely accurate IMO. The vamp may sit higher on your foot but the length may be exact and it might mean that the last is not good for your foot and there must be a better last choice for your foot. IMO if a shoe is brand new and laces are completely closed then when the shoe stretches and breaks in just slightly then they will be too big. YMMV but thats my .02
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. velomane

    velomane Senior member

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    And with all this being said, is there a Vass last that is better suited for those of us with low insteps?
     
  19. justinkapur

    justinkapur Senior member

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    unfortunately I have never handled a pair of Vass. I would love to in the future but I am just oogling all the beautiful shoes in this thread. I know this would not be most peoples first but I love that light shell 2 eyelet split toe boot. I might have to pull the trigger on that in the future
     
  20. bamboo

    bamboo Senior member

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